EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

I've got a mail-in Dynoflash in my car now with Buschur Stage 4 (including injectors) and an SAFC. I'm 99% sure that I want to replace the SAFC with a UTEC, but I just want to make sure I understand the UTEC's operation correctly.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this:

1. I can keep my Dynoflash and then any adjustments to the Fueling tables will just be offsets to the flash fuel tuning, similar to what I'm doing now with the SAFC. I understand that I can't use prepackaged maps, but I don't care about that.

2. Fuel tuning is accomplished with the UTEC by modifying the MAF signal, not by direct control of the injectors (more like an SAFC than an AEM EMS).

3. Adjustments to the Ignition table would be absolute values that would override the Dynoflash, except in cells with "ECU" in which case the Dynoflash would prevail. (in other words, like a standalone when not in "ECU" cells).

4. Since my Dynoflash is already scaled for 660 injectors (or something similar -- sometimes I wonder based on all the fuel I have to pull with the SAFC to keep it out of the 10s), I would tell the UTEC that I have stock injectors in the car.

Thanks!

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Okay to keep from completely confusing you, I'll address and elaborate on each point..

Yes, you can keep your dynoflash, in the past some members have had difficulty tuning with a reflash, it is recommended by most to reflash to stock, but its not necessary if you have the time and tools to work with what you have.

This is actually both true, and false.. Since UTEC Firmware version 1.6 (which was never released) It has had a feature called OPEN LOOP FUELING, which directly controls the injectors and has a base map and scaling features. This was done to provide greater control over what offsetting the MAF signal can do (Since offsetting the MAF also indirectly affects timing).. What makes this answer both true and false is that you CAN disable the new Open loop feature and use the older MAF offset method (which all piggybacks use) However you lose the advantages of the open loop fueling features such as configurable MAF Cut and Boost cut, Injector Scaling, Altering your redline RPM limit, and eliminating different types of fuel cut scenarios that you could get. In your case, you can disable the Open Loop Fueling and use the Dynoflash's reflash settings as long as their set the way you want/need them. There's obviously more details you should research about this since you are aware of your scenario and needs.

This is correct, all timing that you explicitly specify in the maps are actually in degrees before Top Dead Center.

This is a little more complicated.. if you are using the old method for altering the MAF Offset, then you would make no scaling changes (It actually might be disabled or ignored if you did)

If you were using the new OPEN LOOP fuel control, there are two scaling settings, the "Stock Injector Size" setting is misleadingly labeled, it is actually the setting that scales the MAF reading appropriately, this would be left at 550 (it actually is an arbitrary number since larger injectors don't always correlate to the size you'd enter) The second setting is "Modified Injector Size" that is set by default to 550, this is the setting that alters the scaling of the background map used in open loop fueling, and would still need to be set for larger injectors if you used open loop fuel control since the background map IS NOT the ECU map with the OLF feature turned on.


So, the short answer is, you can disable the new OLF fuel features and you will get what your looking for. Or you can leave the feature enabled and it will completely supercede the Dynoflash tuning. You have to decide what these features mean to you, and how you want to utilize it. Also, the transition from Closed loop ECU fuel control, and OPEN LOOP ECU FUEL CONTROL is around 25-30% throttle position, to get best drivability, you will end up spending some time matching the settings from the Dynoflash, to the settings in the UTEC at that transition point. (Its actually pretty easy to do if you have the ability to log AFR's and you log timing.)

Hopefully this didn't thoroughly confuse you.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Oh, I didn't clearly read your first post.. If your injectors are ALREADY Scaled by the dynoflash, the reply would apply....

If you were not already scaled, then you WOULD alter the scaling settings if you are using OLF.. I don't think the scaling feature is enabled when you disable OLF, if it was, you could alter it.. If not, you would be doing it in the Maps in a similar manner that you were on the S-AFC... In open loop fueling, you would definitely set the scaling because the alterations to the background maps, although could be done, may not be as easy with that large a change.

What is VERY VERY VERY VERY important to note is, you need to start with NO SCALING adjustments and log your AFR's, and then set your scaling in smaller increments.. To adjust your scaling for the closed loop fueling (0%-30% throttle position which would place you in the 0% load site) that is goverened by the stock O2 sensor trying to maintain 14.7:1 fueling, in order to adjust that, you'd set the scaling in small increments, watching an OBD-II logger at the long term and short term fuel trims, once you get it within +/-10% your MAF signal is scaled for your injectors and you won't get poor cold start idle, and the 2-3 run cycles to get the ECU happy again in daily driving.

Make sense?

EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

Thanks for the long detailed answers Everything that you are saying does make sense to me. I've got a line on a UTEC at a good price (thanks Evoisdream), so I'm definitely taking the plunge very soon.

While I have some follow-up questions, I think I'm going to wait until I get the unit, read the directions cover-to-cover and read all of the past posts in this forum before asking too many newbie questions.

I'll be back though if I can't find the answers in the forum history.

The reason that I'm getting the UTEC is to make adjustments for my BR440 kit (which I'll be installing soon) and probably a methanol injection setup (which I haven't purchased yet, but plan to soon as soon as I can settle on which kit). The multiple map aspect of the UTEC will be invaluable for having maps for straight pump, pump plus alky, race gas alone, race gas + alky, etc.

I guess I do have one question now that affects what I buy with the UTEC. Should I get the optional MAP sensor?

Thanks again.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Definitely get the MAP sensor.. Its a great aid in tuning and logging..

EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

I already have an AEM 3.5 bar MAP sensor with a 5v output. I'm hoping that I can use the one that I already have. From doing a search, it looks like you can source a Molex connector that will plug right into the UTEC. Since my MAP sensor is already powered from somewhere else, would I literally be just tapping the one MAP signal wire to the connector that's going into the UTEC -- one wire only to the plug going to the UTEC?

I'm not so good with electronics. I can solder stuff up, but that's about it. The AEM MAP gives a 5v signal.

Would this work?

Thanks.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

It probably would, but you have to do the calibration for that sensor since nobody I know of has done it yet.

EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

I just read one of your old posts (only a week or so ago actually) where the topic of using MAF vs. MAP as a load reference for the UTEC maps was being discussed. You wrote:

"Now, when you hit a boost spike, you're load site will likely be slightly higher, than when the boost tapers, so you'll find that your load sites might drop a column as you approach redline, since load reference is now MAP/RPM/TPS instead of MAF which is an airflow reading.. You can see where there's an advantage and disadvantage.. using MAP will allow you to predictably be within a particular load site, however using MAF will be a more true reading of air demand... The only time I'd recommend using MAP for mapping is if you are having alot of trouble getting a predictable tune with the stock MAF.. My solution was to use a more predictable MAF sensor.. But without that as an option, MAP is the next best thing."

I'm having a little trouble reconciling your recommendation of the MAP sensor with this post. Are you collectively saying that you recommend having a MAP for logging purposes, but you would still stick with the MAF as the load reference for the fuel and timing maps in the UTEC?

p.s. My UTEC has been ordered and is on the way!

Widebandphillip

iTrader: (1)

basically he said to use a map setting if the maf readings are wandering. Do a log and if the loads aren't smooth, then use a map sensor for load.

EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

Okay. Sounds like I should hold off on getting a MAP sensor then since I already have one for pure logging purposes. I previously misunderstood that the MAP sensor was the preferable way to set up the load reference on the UTEC.

sgplancer

iTrader: (25)

I find this statement a little confusing.

You should use the map sensor when logging to see what you boost levels/tip in locations are based on rpm/load sites. This should be done in a utec log for obvious reasons (timing degrees, load points, maf readings, afrs, etc.), but will you be logging in the utec using the map sensor or some other logging system?

4G63 T

iTrader: (14)

I sold my utec, because:

increase gas consumption 140 to 150 per tank

it mess up my o2 sensor after turbo xs tune my utec.

Good Luck.

sgplancer

iTrader: (25)

Well this is the first complaint that I have every seen on the UTEC performance.


I have to say that I personally wouldn't go with anything else. Love mine and have seen many benefits over my previous venture, the SAFC2. This isn't to say that I would be more pleased/displeased with another system, but I would want to switch just to find out that I should have stayed with my UTEC.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Your increased gas consumption was likely directly related to a bad o2 sensor, with a nonfunctional or damaged O2 sensors, your fuel consumption would be obscene (I have run my car a few times in a forced open loop fuel control at part throttle and it runs really rich and feels aweful)

However, I can guarantee that the UTEC will not screw up a properly functioning O2 sensor, its just not possible.

Its unfortunate you had a problem, however the UTEC was not to blame for the problem.

4G63 T

iTrader: (14)

Then, what could be the reason, when they tuned my car everything working fine except we have to change fouled spark plugs.

ever since day one after tuning, i have incresae gas consumption, and it didnt even
activate check engine light when o2 sensor went bad, until dynoflash confirm it.
apparently, utec was masking the problem per Al.