Where is the LOAD, COOLANT TEMP, SPEED, IPW, IDC, Knock Sum and TIMING in this chart? I challange you to produce ONE ZT2 chart with ALL of what I mentioned PLUS what you have posted

 

You should really do your research before opening your mouth.

 

Ok, I sand corrected, but the question was about ZT2 SOFTWARE vs. LOGWORKS. You said LW was catching up to ZT2 Software. NOW PROVE IT.

You stil did NOT answer my question:

Catching up??? Really? Here is question for you: Does the ZT2 software have the capablity to log parameters from the Tactrix cable (Load, Speed, Coolant Temp, Air Temp, timing, KS, IPW, etc...) like Logworks does?

You still did not POST is the thread as I challanged you to:

I challenge you to post what you just said in this thread If you really believe what you say, then go ahead and post. I really hope that jjf will reply to your post if you dare to post in the thread.


So LET ME REPEAT: Please post in the thread that Innovate LogWorks Software is catchig up to ZT2 software ANF show me a ONE chart with all the parameters I listed PLUS those parameters from ZT2

 

You see, the problem with people that have not had the advantages of Zeitronix wideband tuning and logging systems is that they live under this false notion that the wideband logger itself somehow NEEDS to encompass Evoscan in it's OWN log.

This is FALSE and not necessary.

In FACT, MANY would prefer to use the Evoscan dundas gauge in the background so they can keep tabs on LIVE knocksums as indicated by a colored gauge as available in Evoscan.

This is how we use the Zeitronix Evoscan package.

You have made your point that YOU are excited about the logworks package. What is exciting and new to someone that has not had a decent logger may be old news to another that has been able to log, TPS, EGT, AFR, BOOST, RPM, Knock voltage for years. This will be how many of the current ZEITRONIX users will feel.

It is no more difficult to use the Evoscan and ZEITRONIX loggers concurrently as many people already do.

LoadCalc, coolant temp, all of those logs from Evoscan are still available through evoscan. To ANY EXPERIENCED tuner, coolant temp, Loac Calcs are not needed or helpful. Loadcalc could be beneficial to a newbie just getting their feet wet however.

Anyhow, TTP-Engineering finds the most benefit in 4 simple parameters of Evoscan. We log both Zeitronix and Evoscan concurrently and the results appear as shown in the below photo. Works excellently and no additional parameters are provided by Logworks, than what is available from the Zeitronix/Evoscan combo.

 

That log was of a 4 gear drag pass showing the overlap view layout.

I agree that I dislike the overlap and use the cleaner version layout as pictured above.

I hope your Zeitronix has reached you by now Abner. Evom members and their families bought 37 Zeitronix units during our Christmas promotion.

 

There is no NEED to do anything. It is far easier and preferable to run one logging software on your lap top instead of TWO. You of all people should know that since you correctly berated the xede for its inability to give actual timing numbers and forcing me to log xede parameters and do dumbass calculations to get the correct timing. NOW, you are saying the opposite!!! How come????

Some people might have ONLY one usb port on their laptop, so for them it is far easier to run one logging software. I am forced to run two (dumb xede timing) and I am having conflict between the USB devices.

Logworks has gauges as well. You can run as many gauges as you want and you do not have to log. You can have TWO screens one running the gauges and one logging the parameters from the tactrix cable AND LM-1/LC-1.

Why don't you admit that your statement that "Logworks is catching up to the ZT2 software" IS WRONG. Why do you have to bring Evoscan into the picture to save the ZT2 software. We are not tlaking about EVOSCAN. You did not even mention EVOSCAN initially. The fact is that Logworks NOW allows you to integrate Tactrix cable parameters into ONE log and view it in realtime. You can have up to 10 parameters logged in realtime. ZT2 CANNOT do that. This is a FACT.

Yes you can run them at the same time. But it is EASIER to run ONE software that logs ALL the needed parameters. That is the whole point of Logworks allowing users to integrate Tactrix cable data.

One more time. We are not discussing Evoscan. It is a great program and I love it and you were right to say that it is way superior to the pocketlogger. We are talking about Logworks software vs. ZT2 software. Logworks allows you to integrate data from Tactrix with you the boost, AFR, EGT data that you get from LM-1/LC-1/LMA-3/LMA-2. Does ZT2 do that. It does NOT.

Let me just say this. I think you are a great tuner and a great drag racer. But you need to learn not to make blanket statements and admit that you are wrong. There is nothing wrong in admitting that you are wrong. We are human after all.

 

TTP - I bought a tz2 from you, how do I get it to show my data log on the right like that, with the red highlight?

Thanks

 

I suppose it depends on your needs. When it comes to actual wideband measurements, we are the fastest and most accurate available, at any price. The only exception would be the vendors who license our measurement technology.

So when you buy our LC-1 (which I frequently see at a street price of $199 with sensor) you are, in fact, buying the fastest and most accurate lambda instrument available. In some applications, this speed and accuracy really matters. For example, at PRI there was a presentation (not ours) on cyl by cyl lambda tuning. The results were ambiguous until our wideband measurements were tried and some hidden HP was found (needless to say, interest in our ST-12 setup soared at the show).

Another engine builder explained how he was using an LC-1 at full speed with an o-scope for valve tuning. And I've been working with several folks in aviation applications (including racing), where our high measurement speed and true atmospheric compensation make some things possible that wouldn't be possible with any other wideband controller currently available.

This isn't to say that speed and accuracy aren't of value to the average tuner. For example, if your are logging and using the data to edit fuel maps, you can use our LC-1 or LM-1 and not have to worry about measurement delay. With other controllers, you really should be shifting your AFR measurements by at least a column to compensate for limitations in the measurement principle used (unfortunately, determining just how much to shift their measurements is something of a science unto itself).

But speed and precision come with a cost. For example, our high speed measurements require care in grounding, and our controllers will throw errors in conditions (sensor over temp, operating out of spec., etc.) where most other controllers will gladly continue to give you readings (typically erroneous readings, but readings none the less).

So, if someone is really just looking for a glorified EGT gauge - basically an indication when things are grossly out of whack, the only reason I can think to buy use would be if you happen to get a good price. On the other hand, if you are looking to push the envelope, perhaps even experiment with your own tunes - then I think we warrant a good hard look. Faster and more accurate isn't just hype, we can prove it on the bench with calibrated gasses and in countless hours of pro and am real world logging.

As far as logging software, I'd be the first to acknowledge that LogWorks isn't perfect. Nor is it ideal for every application. Sure, it has won some awards, but as a developer you learn to take that with a hefty grain of salt. However, for us, LogWorks is a vehicle to promote tuning (pun intended). As I've said in another thread, we believe that more tuning leads to more wideband usage and more wideband usage ultimately leads more users to us.

That is why we 'open the door' on all fronts. LogWorks is now open to other data sources, including 3rd party lambda measurement. Similiarly, we've been providing an SDK and other support for logging vendors to help them integrate our measurements into their software.

So, if LogWorks does what you need, great - it's free, enjoy. If you want to use something else, fine - we do everything from programmable analog outputs on every controller to SDKs and source samples to help other companies log the best wideband controllers available.

-jjf
Innovate Motorsports

P.S. I'm not really going to address the whole who is following who thing. Zeitronix seems like a good company and they are one of the few that post remotely honest specs for their wideband controller. Trying to haggle on rather their new analog output is an effort to mimic the two programmable analog outputs our products have always had or rather the alarms and warning features on their new gauge are an imitation of our original XD-1 is just a bunch of pointless back biting.

I think users should base their purchase on their needs, along with some consideration for how the company stands behind its products. Again, we are faster, more accurate, and have a wider measurement range. I also know that everyone here is 100% committed to customer support - starting at the top. So, rather you are a pro or not, if you have professional needs I would encourage you to give our products a look.

 

It's interesting that all of the claimed testing came to a slightly different result when tested by an INDEPENDANT 3rd party.



Interesting. So Zeitronix widebands work with Logworks software. For those feeling the need such as nj1266 to have an outside logger input from their tactrix cable, that is yet another option.

I still would rather use Zeitronix + Evoscan however as it works perfectly fine and is no harder than Logworks.

Dataloglab will not work with it though, so is it really helpful even to people like nj1266?

I think we have clearly communicated the 3rd party results which have tested the Innovate to the Zeitronix units with results that differ from your claims.

Central Florida Turbo in Orlando, FL is one of your dealers that has voiced concerns about a number of LM-1 units that have failed and warranties denied by Innovate. Addressing the dealers that have problems seems like a first step in a "100% committment to customer service" policy. It is the dealers that support the customers.

 

Could you cite the full article source (link to the publication or something)? Clearly based on the snippet posted, it is some folks who are not particularly science/test minded, but the variation among units using the same basic sensors and measurement principles make me suspect that executation was every bit as flawed as the methodology.

Forget Innovate's erratic score - the tests place your beloved vendor off by a factor of 6 times their published accuracy on some tests. This leads me to suspect that the testers didn't understand exhaust flow, thermal variation, and that some of the bungs were poorly sealed. Additional photos or descriptions might help pinpoint more of their mistakes.

The arbitrary selection of a benchmark unit is perhaps the biggest flaw (though comparing multiple sensor points is a close second). The only way to confirm the accuracy of any particular instrument is with calibrated gasses. Rather it is voltmeters or a GPS system, you have to start from a verifiable known point to insure any level of precision.

Frankly, I don't get either your insults or your tone. You started by claiming that we are a 'catch up' company. That is just nonsensical. Look at the products, look at their features, and look at their release dates. Rather you love us or hate us, one thing should be clear - we are not a me-too company.

Now you are taking a single, spectacularly flawed, effort at instrument validation and touting it as proof positive that our hard earned reputation at speed, precision, and accuracy is moot (I guess you think our huge pro 'winners circle' is sheer luck as well). The fact that the same 'test' seems to 'prove' that your own preferred vendor is too inaccurate to be used to tune fuel maps seems to have escaped you.

Look, if this was the "Pimp my Ride" forum, we wouldn't be having a disucssion, your hawking something that is relatively cheap, is sold by a seemingly reputable company, and has a spiffy blue dispaly. I'd say, have at it.

But this is a tuning forum. Since since fast accruate lambda measurements matter, I think we warrant a look if someone is a hardcore tuner. Similiarly, since we give away a comprehensive logging solution, aggressively help freeware and shareware logging solutions, and don't lock you into factory provided, individually calibrated sensors I think we warrant a look for serious tuners on a budget as well.

If you disagree, fine, just stick to facts and be willing to back them up. If you want to arrange an independant shoot out using technical folks on this, or any other open tuning forum, we'll be there. All we ask is that the testing methodology be good enough for a 10th grade science fair. I suspect that we'd even be willing to kick in funds for calibrated gasses and other resouces.

As a company, we believe 100% in our measurement principle (the inventor is our co-founder), and are always willing to put our gear to the test.

As an individual, speaking *solely for myself*, I'm willing to back it up as well. Normally when I make friendly wagers they involve a humiliating act captured for posterity (something along the lines of 'loser gets his picture taken eating a tea spoon of dog doo...'), but in the spirit of the season, I'd propose $500 to a recognized non-profit charity of the winner's choice.

So, professionally, I'm happy to discuss our products and solutions on merit. Similiarly, I'm happy to subject any claim I make to technical validation and review. I have no interest in trash talking our competition, only in pointing out what we have to offer.

Personally, I'm willing to go one step further and put my own money where my mouth is (or my gag reflex where my mouth is, if you are a humiliation over charity kind of person). Bottom line, I don't make false claims, I consider it a point of honor to be technically honest and forthright, and I stand by my work and the work of my peers at Innovate.

-jjf
Innovate Motorsports

 

this is funny, get em ttp!!!! so ttp this is the best one, are u selling it????i have the aem ems for my IX and can i use this???...i do not have the wide band yet

 

We believe the ZEITRONIX wideband tuning system to be the best for the money. With the full works package it is a near bulletproof engine preservation system, perfect for meth injection, pump gas, race fuel, tuning on the ragged edge of performance with programmable boost cut safeguards based on EGT, AFR, RPM, Boost, TPS with both simple thresholds and complex ones as well.

Its no wonder so many units sold during our Christmas sale last week.

Educated members can see the difference.

 

are u selling this???

 

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=240144

 

Actually, I'm confused - from your signature it appears that you don't even primarily use Zeitronix software, yet you have absolute confidence in a 'system'...

But in any event, if you truly believe, great - let's put it to the test. A real test, not some pet rock experiment from a source I've never heard of.

There are folks here who dissassemble ROMs and hack live maps into factory ECUs, surely we can find some folks who can handle things like calibrated gas bottles and o-scopes.

Seriously, why not? I've pegged Zeitronix as yet another rehash of the same tired old current based design that so many folks have recycled (and Bowling and Grippo did a great job of critiquing). Nicely bundled, but still limited to the physics of the measurement principle and the sensor.

But just because you trash talk other lines and keep bringing up don't-be-left-out-they're-flying-off-our-shelves unit sales banter like a used car salesman doesn't mean you are wrong.

From a company perpective, I know we'd be up for it. If we're still top of the heap, great - if not, we'll better to know it and work to improve.

From a personal standpoint, I'd like once change. Since you're selling units like hotcakes, let's make it $1000 to charity.

-jjf