I recently installed an e-manage with the ignition harness and would like to know what the best way to tune the ignition timing for 91 octane fuel is. Do I get an OBD2 data logger and keep advancing until I get knock then back it up, or id there a better way? Let me know what you guys are doing.

 

First question: are you sure it's working? I've been datalogging on mine for a couple months and the best I've been able to do is have it hold a map for a few miles after an ECU reset. What did you tap into? Where? How are you logging to ensure that the maps are holding?

If you HAVE discovered the secret, I know a few hundred guys with these "learning" ECUs that would love to know what you did.

To answer your question, yes. Tune for knock, retard about 3 degrees once you've found it

 

As far as the air flow maps, I have an AEM UEGO gauge style that I use and it has been more than 200 miles since I tuned that and it is still holding. The Secret I used was only tune in the open loop section, but I would guess that wasn't what you meant. As far as the ignition timing goes I haven't touched it yet because I wasn't sure what the best way to do it was. I was wondering if the ECU would let me change the timing or if it would just bring it back for me, but the RRM piggyback says it tunes for 91 octane, which ussually means a change in ignition timing. So do they say 91 octane for timing or A/F ratio?

 

I've been told the original RRM/splitsecond piggy pulled enough fuel that the ECU compensated by advancing the timing and that's why they say at least 91. The new piggy is supposed to have better gains and work on 89

I just got my "official" GReddy suport tool cable and I plan to start over with reloading the software sometime this week... I hope Boe is right and it's just that the clone cable wasn't sendign good info.

What AFR were you tuning for?

 

I tried to tune for 13:1, which means I got somewhere between 12.8 and 13.4. After doing more research though I'm going to bring it back down to between 12.5 and 13.1 or so. I wouldn't want to melt a piston or anything. A friend of mine knows a guy who wired up an LED to the knock sensor so he could always tell when he had knock. I'm looking into that now and thought you might be interested in something like that. I'm also trying to come up with a 501 maf so it will be intersting to see what happens when I try to tune that. Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

There's a guy here who keeps suggesting someone do that LED thing- please do it and post instructions so we can shut him up Actually, that would be awesome. I have a long weekend this wek and I'm hoping I can steal some time to play with the eM

care to PM me one of the maps you're using? I'm curious what your tune looks like when you're basically stock. or you can email it to me- my website is in my profile

Thanks

 

I can send you a map, but I'm not exactly stock anymore. I guess it's been a while since I updated my registry. I don't have as much as you, but I do have a sri with mandrel bent 45 degree elbow 3" aluminum tubing, the rrm ported throttle body, the rrm ported intake manifold, an rpw header, high flow cat, and magnaflow cat back. I also have an automatic, so I guess the area that I tune is a little different from the area you tune. Another thing is that I don't think I have the same version of firmware as you do. I haven't downloaded the newest version so all I have is the version that comes with support tool version 1.10. Also you mentioned that you wanted to know how I got it to hold a tune. Did you mean the air flow map, or did you mean the timing map? i was looking at the wiring diagrams in the service manual and I don't see any way the ECU can detect ignition timing except the knock sensor. If you think about it, why would they need to? The ECU generates the ignition timing in the first place, so I'm not sure how it could sense that the timing was off and then adjust it back. Anyway let me know what you have found.

Edit: I checked my support software and found that I have software version 1.20 and update file 1.40

 

You'll want to upgrade that firmware to at least 1.29 in order to prevent coil pack problems with the ignition harness- I think that's the firmware that fixed it. Although IIRC the problem ONLY arises if you leave the ignition on without the car running, and it may be a myth because I don't know anyone that it's happened to. I get my updates from mohdparts.com in his eManage section.

I believe ignition timing is controlled by the cam angle sensor. It knows where the cam is in its rotations and that determines when to fire. I think.

Basically, my problem is the eM won't keep a tune. I'm using a Zeitronix wideband to check the AFR and I have a PDA scan tool/ datalogger to get all the juicy ECU info. I'll start at all zeros and do a run to get a AFR curve. Then I'll make a slight change in the 60%+ Throttle area. No change. I'll make a bigger change. Nothing. I'll go backwards. Nothing. Unless I've just unplugged the ECU- then I can dial in a nice curve. So that's why I'm thinking the ECU is learning around the maps. SDHtown pretty much confirmed that our ECUs will learn, but then we have RRM saying their new 5-wire piggyback will not lose its tune (I'm supposing they're the same 5 wire's were using: MAS in, power, ground, TPS, RPM- but I don't know).

I'm interested in finding out who did the install- and if you did it, what pinout map did you use? I've been using the one that's been floating around for a couple years, and it SEEMS to be right (same as SAFC and the RRM piggy from what I've read). Are you setting the maps? Are you using the GReddy cable? Gillian rocks clone? Robin from Malasia's clone? What's your "philosophy" for tuning the maps? Are the maps determined by fuel trim? or just AFR?

When you set up the maps, do you export to the unit? Do you import from the unit and just change real time? There seems to be some conflicting info about how to actually update the maps.

Whatever info you have will be helpful. And if you have a map that takes into consideration mods, that's even better.


thanks!

 

I checked the factory service manual about the ignition timing and it uses the camshaft position sensor, knock sensor, crankshaft position sensor, engine load and a few other things to determine ignition timing, but my point was that it calculates ignition timing and then just fires. If the emanage does what I think it does, it intercepts this signal and then fires a couple degrees later. Although that might be tricky without the crankshaft position sensor input. Anyway, what I was saying is does the ECU even have a way to sense when the spark actually occurs? I don't think it does.

As for your problem of not keeping a tune, I don't think the ecu is compensating for your changes. The reason I say that is because when I was trying to adjust closed loop areas it took the ECU 30 seconds to a minute to readjust for a .5 AFR change.

I did the install and I used a combination of the SAFC howto, the RRM piggyback howto, and the wiring diagrams in the factory service manual. I basically made sure the howtos matched and they made sense with the factory service manual. When I did the injector harness all I had was the factory service manual, but the injector drivers were pretty straight forward.

I am setting the maps and I'm using the actual Greddy cable that came with the support tool software. When I tune maps I do a run in a particular throttle band and then note what RPMs the AFR is off in then make the changes and do another run. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by maps determined by fuel trim or AFR, but I would guess I either use AFR or a combination of the two.

As for how I get the maps in and out of the unit, I let it import when I first hook it up for the tuning session and then I shut off the engine and export every time I'm done making changes to the maps. According to the emanage support tool documentation you shouldn't try to load maps with the engine running and the maps in the emanage don't change until you export to it.

I'll try to get a screen shot of the map I use and post it tonight.

 

Thanks. I've primarily been using the map loading instructions from the eM FAQ and that hasn't been working- I'll try what you're doing. I've also been uploading with the engine running, so that may be part of the problem.

Sucks that the "real time" feature is turning out to be BS.... oh well, as long as we know

Thanks again

 

I guess I don't really know what the real-time feature you refered to is, but when I got the emanage I thought the only thing it could do real-time was map traces(i.e. show you which cell of the map you are currently in). Are we supposed to be able to change the maps in real-time?

 

yes. If you go to the "communication" tab (where you go to import and export) there's an option that's generally always "checked" and that says "Real-time communication" but it apparently doesn't work

 

Alchemist, do you want me to ask some of the GReddy Miragers to give a brief note and analysis on their Emanage? None of them seem to have any problems, whatsoever. Granted, we dont have a knock sensor, but still, that is a small thing in the big world of Emanage.

 

Any help is always appreciated. The yahoo group is a joke and the two english language eManage forums are pretty lame (granted they're new, but no one on either of them seems to have much experience).

If one of them could just do a quick writeup, that would be awesome.

Also- are the fuel cuts pretty extreme? Like more than 10% trim?

 

I use the real time adjustment all the time... works for me. I was just out tuning with the emanage last night and all worked as it should. I load maps with the engine running as well and never have a problem.

I have notice that if you make changes to the map it makes changes real time but they don't stick until you export. If you just close the program it will revert back. I think they do this so you can use the compare funtion to see the changes between current settings and saved settings.

The stock ecu does learn in closed loop... this isn't to say that you can't adjust in closed loop as you can. But in closed loop you have to adjust to fuel trims and AFR. Thus putting bigger injectors in your trying to get a zero fuel trim status with the 14.7 AFR. The car will fluctuate the AFR as it adjusts itself but the trims will remain minimal... +/-5. In WOT or open loop situations you can tune till you blow the sucker up. The ecu doesn't look at the AFR or fuel trims anymore. It runs of a predetermined map which is based off RPM and Air Flow signal.

I wish you guys that have issues were more local to me so that i could assist you better. There has to be some simple problem that is getting overlooked. The emanage has worked on the mirages, lancers, ralliarts, and many other cars in the same family. I use it on my 1G eclipse even. It worked great for upgrading injectors... just used its correction factor for driveability and then wideband to tune open loop areas. Simple and easy.

I've been using version 1.11 for the longest time... would you like me to email that version to you guys to give it a shot. Used it on everycar so far and never any problems.