Porting and Polishing Heads
Porting and Polishing Heads
Is there a howto to port and polish heads on the lancer? Because i hear you get like 20hp from doing it and i really could use 20hp. if there is no howto, how much would a place cost to do it approximately? Thanks!
i have heard the opposite. there is not much to gain, even on a turbo application. Boe ported his head and said maybe a 5 hp difference on his turbo car. So I highly doubt you would get 20 from just a port and polish.
Maybe a new set of oversized valves, port polish, new cams, springs and retainers you might get 20 but not sure.
Maybe a new set of oversized valves, port polish, new cams, springs and retainers you might get 20 but not sure.
Um...do you own a machine shop? Do you know what a port and polish is? Do you know that you only have one head on your engine? I'm thinking maybe this is a step you should consider skipping until you're better informed or at least have a good bit of work done on your car and a period where you don't need to be driving it.
On a side note: In theory this should be one of the most beneficial mods you can make simply because it allows your motor to inhale and exhale that much more efficiently. Not trying to contradict Boe's findings, but it seems to me like something else might be the hinderance if the P&P isn't providing much benefit. Just my thoughts on that comment (for whatever little they're worth) since it was brought up. 
Depends where you go and what you get done. Try asking shops for quotes. Anywhere from a few hundred to around a grand generally speaking. Are you sure you're ready for it? From your first post I still wonder if you even know what a port and polish is. 
just because i talk like i am newb doesnt mean i am one.
Isint it cleaning and smoothing out the head so they allow more breathing room for the head?
And i love your approach at talking to me. (Sarcasm)
Isint it cleaning and smoothing out the head so they allow more breathing room for the head?
And i love your approach at talking to me. (Sarcasm)
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Everything I've read says the porting and polishing of your cylinder head is the lowest HP/$ ratio going. Boe's 5 ponies sounds about right for a boost application. It probably cost him over $100/hp. An NA application probably wouldn't notice any differece- well, there's the weight reduction effect caused by your wallet getting skinny, but that's not a good way to go about losing weight.... this is usually the LAST thing poeple do to get that extra few HP- there are LOTS of things to do before you're really ready or in need of a P&P.
However, a ported intake mani is a relatively good investment in terms of hp/$ and can be done relatively easily. If you don't have the equipment or place to do this, RRM sells the ported intakes. I have a website that I can post if you're interested in the intake porting. It'll cost you about $150 in tools, and prob 8-10 hours in the shop, maybe a little more....
Most, if not all, of the aftermarket headers (exhaust mani/ extractors) that I've seen for the lancer are as "ported" as you can get.
Good luck!!
However, a ported intake mani is a relatively good investment in terms of hp/$ and can be done relatively easily. If you don't have the equipment or place to do this, RRM sells the ported intakes. I have a website that I can post if you're interested in the intake porting. It'll cost you about $150 in tools, and prob 8-10 hours in the shop, maybe a little more....
Most, if not all, of the aftermarket headers (exhaust mani/ extractors) that I've seen for the lancer are as "ported" as you can get.
Good luck!!
Personally I couldn't care less whether you like the approach or not. I'm not here to give you hugs, I'm trying to prevent you from possibly making a large investment with little to no gain. You have no car info posted as far as mods go, and your initial post implies little to no understanding of the process you were asking about. This was akin to people saying they want 250hp turbo kits (according to the claims on the box) as far as I could tell.
At any rate, I did answer your question, and the only way you're going to get a concrete number is by calling around or stopping by shops. Make sure you know exactly what they're doing to your head though (some will do more, some will do less, some will port more aggressively etc), and, as with anything, try to find a place that's been recommended by someone you trust or that has a good reputation in general.
I'm highly skeptical of a 20hp gain. That's 1/5 increase in power at the crank. Something tells me if it were that simple Mitsubishi would have used it to sell cars (i.e. putting it in the ralliart instead or boosting the base Lancer's HP ratings). I think what Vince was saying about Boe's claim of approx 5hp seems a lot more realistic on a naturally aspirated 2.0 liter. The real benefit of a P&P isn't a raw HP gain so much as that it allows your other mods such as intake, exhaust manifold, exhaust, intake manifold, etc. to function more efficiently and effectively. i.e. A P&P by itself or with basic mods probably won't make much of a difference in the way of HP or torque numbers. The only reason I was shocked at all by Boe's HP claim is because I know (not precisely, but within a reasonable amount of error) what he's got under his hood, and it should, in theory at least, provide him more of a benefit even from a mild P&P.
Take them however you want to. You don't have to like my posts.
EDIT: And to answer your very first question there is no how to. The entire how to section is stickied so if you don't see it, it doesn't exist. Thanks to Peejay for keeping up my work there, because without him that entire forum would be a pit of "how do i install my hyperwhites?!?!?!!" again.
At any rate, I did answer your question, and the only way you're going to get a concrete number is by calling around or stopping by shops. Make sure you know exactly what they're doing to your head though (some will do more, some will do less, some will port more aggressively etc), and, as with anything, try to find a place that's been recommended by someone you trust or that has a good reputation in general.
I'm highly skeptical of a 20hp gain. That's 1/5 increase in power at the crank. Something tells me if it were that simple Mitsubishi would have used it to sell cars (i.e. putting it in the ralliart instead or boosting the base Lancer's HP ratings). I think what Vince was saying about Boe's claim of approx 5hp seems a lot more realistic on a naturally aspirated 2.0 liter. The real benefit of a P&P isn't a raw HP gain so much as that it allows your other mods such as intake, exhaust manifold, exhaust, intake manifold, etc. to function more efficiently and effectively. i.e. A P&P by itself or with basic mods probably won't make much of a difference in the way of HP or torque numbers. The only reason I was shocked at all by Boe's HP claim is because I know (not precisely, but within a reasonable amount of error) what he's got under his hood, and it should, in theory at least, provide him more of a benefit even from a mild P&P.
Take them however you want to. You don't have to like my posts.
EDIT: And to answer your very first question there is no how to. The entire how to section is stickied so if you don't see it, it doesn't exist. Thanks to Peejay for keeping up my work there, because without him that entire forum would be a pit of "how do i install my hyperwhites?!?!?!!" again.
Last edited by HobieKopek; Jul 19, 2004 at 03:02 PM.
a 5.0 mustang with a P&P might gain 20HP, but you should just avoid doing it, your engine is a little baby thing and has no need to be taken apart and rebuilt, why do that? just leave it be.
I'll post it tonight when I get home.
Now, for some fun homework. turn on your PS2. Insert Gran Turismo 3. Buy a new car. Go to the tuning section and select port and polish. Try not to get depressed at the $$/hp ratio. Yeah, the game is THAT realisitc!!
Seriously. The minimal gain you see in that game are pretty much what you'd see in real life, but the numbers in the game tend to be inflated because everything is boosted and boosted cars tend to see larger gains from small stuff like that (from what little I've read).
Now, for some fun homework. turn on your PS2. Insert Gran Turismo 3. Buy a new car. Go to the tuning section and select port and polish. Try not to get depressed at the $$/hp ratio. Yeah, the game is THAT realisitc!!
Seriously. The minimal gain you see in that game are pretty much what you'd see in real life, but the numbers in the game tend to be inflated because everything is boosted and boosted cars tend to see larger gains from small stuff like that (from what little I've read).
QUOTE=engineerboy]I'll post it tonight when I get home.
Now, for some fun homework. turn on your PS2. Insert Gran Turismo 3. Buy a new car. Go to the tuning section and select port and polish. Try not to get depressed at the $$/hp ratio. Yeah, the game is THAT realisitc!! Seriously. The minimal gain you see in that game are pretty much what you'd see in real life, but the numbers in the game tend to be inflated because everything is boosted and boosted cars tend to see larger gains from small stuff like that (from what little I've read).[/QUOTE]
Sorry, don't ever go to a video game to find out what your horsepower gain is going to be. I don't care how much research they did, it is still a game that cannot possibly include all of the factors in your situation. In that game you can wash your car twice for a HP gain, which is awesomely realistic, go do it like all the time. (S) Now onto the topic. A P&P by someone who knows what they are doing for a SOHC 2.0 2002 Mitsu engine is going to run you around 3 grand, 4 grand if you want them to put in the new pistons/rings/rods etc. for you which you probably will. Your HP gain will be determined from a lot of different factors including if it cleans out crap in your cylinders, which would regain lost HP. You will utilize a P&P most by using it in conjunction with a restructuring of your whole manifold and exhaust system. This means you should save up about 13 grand and all at the same time (you won't have your car for awhile) replace plugs, wires, new intake manifold to match cylinder size, new header to match cylinder size, exhaust system to match your new (ported) header, new cat, new muffler, and get an ECU configured to your upgrades (or else your car might destroy itself/not function properly). This is a Division II rally move because forced induction is not allowed (along with several other things depending on the race). Yes it's a lot of money and yes it's a lot of time but your car was engineered to operate a certain way. You will never see a large HP gain from replacing or upgrading just one thing (outside of forced induction) because your whole system has to work together. If you do all this work, just promise me you'll get good tires and drilled slotted rotors so you don't lock up your stock breaks and kill yourself. Replacing your system as listed above with a P&P usually renders 70-130hp in 4 cyl. systems. The only (ES) Lancer system I know of that has had this done got a 112hp gain and the team races the Rally car out of Germany. If you are looking for quick power upgrade without having to know much about cars and you are just going to run up and down the street and **** people off at stop lights then throw down 5 grand for a turbo, but you'll still get your *** handed to you by a suped up mustang or a stock vette. If you want to seriously race on tracks with the SCCA do some more research and understand your car and racing in general is a bottomless pit to dump all of your money into that guarantees to return whatsoever. Just like gambling but your life is at risk too!
Now, for some fun homework. turn on your PS2. Insert Gran Turismo 3. Buy a new car. Go to the tuning section and select port and polish. Try not to get depressed at the $$/hp ratio. Yeah, the game is THAT realisitc!!
Seriously. The minimal gain you see in that game are pretty much what you'd see in real life, but the numbers in the game tend to be inflated because everything is boosted and boosted cars tend to see larger gains from small stuff like that (from what little I've read).[/QUOTE]Sorry, don't ever go to a video game to find out what your horsepower gain is going to be. I don't care how much research they did, it is still a game that cannot possibly include all of the factors in your situation. In that game you can wash your car twice for a HP gain, which is awesomely realistic, go do it like all the time. (S) Now onto the topic. A P&P by someone who knows what they are doing for a SOHC 2.0 2002 Mitsu engine is going to run you around 3 grand, 4 grand if you want them to put in the new pistons/rings/rods etc. for you which you probably will. Your HP gain will be determined from a lot of different factors including if it cleans out crap in your cylinders, which would regain lost HP. You will utilize a P&P most by using it in conjunction with a restructuring of your whole manifold and exhaust system. This means you should save up about 13 grand and all at the same time (you won't have your car for awhile) replace plugs, wires, new intake manifold to match cylinder size, new header to match cylinder size, exhaust system to match your new (ported) header, new cat, new muffler, and get an ECU configured to your upgrades (or else your car might destroy itself/not function properly). This is a Division II rally move because forced induction is not allowed (along with several other things depending on the race). Yes it's a lot of money and yes it's a lot of time but your car was engineered to operate a certain way. You will never see a large HP gain from replacing or upgrading just one thing (outside of forced induction) because your whole system has to work together. If you do all this work, just promise me you'll get good tires and drilled slotted rotors so you don't lock up your stock breaks and kill yourself. Replacing your system as listed above with a P&P usually renders 70-130hp in 4 cyl. systems. The only (ES) Lancer system I know of that has had this done got a 112hp gain and the team races the Rally car out of Germany. If you are looking for quick power upgrade without having to know much about cars and you are just going to run up and down the street and **** people off at stop lights then throw down 5 grand for a turbo, but you'll still get your *** handed to you by a suped up mustang or a stock vette. If you want to seriously race on tracks with the SCCA do some more research and understand your car and racing in general is a bottomless pit to dump all of your money into that guarantees to return whatsoever. Just like gambling but your life is at risk too!
Alright, self defense: obviously you missed the point of what I was saying. Just a P&P is gonna net very low gains, and GT3 is an EXAMPLE of how low those gains are gonna be. BTW, the "lowest" lancer they have is like an Evo V GSR or something (don't have it in front of me) nothing in our econobox class to get a better idea from.... I'm not in any way advocating going to video games for tuning advice.
2nd, drilled rotors are BAD!! Check out the pic:
http://racingknowledge.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2646
If you "need" rotors that aren't solid, you need dimpled, slotted or drilled rotors with rounded holes (a la Porsche) otherwise you get stress fractures like in the picture. In fact, you can see some stress fractures around the slots.
Kent, WA is a little south of where I live and is infamous for it's fatal street racing scene. Several very fatal crashes (killing drivers, passengers, spectators and passers-by all in one fell swoop) were caused by failed cross-drilled rotors (according to King County Sherriff's reports).
Since you're familiar with the reworking of 4G94 internals- how much HP would this guy stand to gain from JUST the P&P? Given everything else you listed (higher comp pistons, ECU, intake mani, header, exhaust, fuel delivery system) it sounds like P&P gives maybe 3hp? 4hp? and you were saying in the $3K range, right?
2nd, drilled rotors are BAD!! Check out the pic:
http://racingknowledge.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2646
If you "need" rotors that aren't solid, you need dimpled, slotted or drilled rotors with rounded holes (a la Porsche) otherwise you get stress fractures like in the picture. In fact, you can see some stress fractures around the slots.
Kent, WA is a little south of where I live and is infamous for it's fatal street racing scene. Several very fatal crashes (killing drivers, passengers, spectators and passers-by all in one fell swoop) were caused by failed cross-drilled rotors (according to King County Sherriff's reports).
Since you're familiar with the reworking of 4G94 internals- how much HP would this guy stand to gain from JUST the P&P? Given everything else you listed (higher comp pistons, ECU, intake mani, header, exhaust, fuel delivery system) it sounds like P&P gives maybe 3hp? 4hp? and you were saying in the $3K range, right?
Last edited by engineerboy; Jul 20, 2004 at 03:43 PM.
offtopic - i run powerslot slotted rotors in the fronts on my lancer and acura, i upgraded the pads, i use composites on lancer, and ceramics on the acura, the lancer has been driven hard, not track hard, and i haven't had problems, i think the slots are a good investment for your street car, but a track car, i would get something made for the track