Kensuke's guide to a tasteful Lancer!
Kensuke's guide to a tasteful Lancer! -UPDATED
Disclaimer: In this thread I am likey going to make many references to words such as "rice" and use such words as "waste of money." Please take these words at face value as my opinion and DO NOT become angry and pm me about it. To mods: I placed this thread here because I felt that it fit into most all of the Lancer forum categories.
Edit: I feel that I need to add that this is really geared toward 02/03 Lancer owners. I'm sure that the information could be useful to other people, but I feel that it will be most useful to the target audience.
Not too long ago (less than an hour, actually) I spent quite a bit of time making suggestions for a member's black 02/03 Lancer. Many of the references in the post that may seem a bit out of context are to his RRM front grill and depo tail lights. I feel that this thread should be posted where it is more visible since it addresses many of the "what should i do" questions that surface all too often. This is just my opinion... I've owned a few cars (that were all from what you'd call, "different import scenes"), and I feel I do have some space to voice this. In the past I've created other suggestion threads which seemed to be useful, so hopefully this one will be as well. Thanks for reading.
original post:
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the exterior looks really clean right now... don't rice your car out with the off-brand body parts available. build yourself some nice footworks, work with the engine (and when i say work with, i mean turbocharge because that's the only way you'll make any power on this thing for the money you'll spend), then decide if anything else exterior wise is even worthwhile. maybe the rmr type 2 lip, but simple really is hottt on these cars. if i had only known what i know now, i would have NEVER had 18s on my lancer (oh well, it's sold anyway). since you asked for opinion, this is what i would do:
footworks:
- tein superstreet ($1250) ~ the 7/5 should be more than stiff enough and you will want adjustable dampening down the road when you conclude how best to take advantage of your driving abilities http://www.tein.co.jp
- front and rear strut bars ~ would highly recommend rrm for this task... would also recommend that you do this before coilovers since you really should decide if you want that kind of drop for looks or performance. you may find that your driving abilities will never justify the price of a coilover setup. you may decide that you not only need coilovers, but you also need odds and ends such as tie bars (stiffens and prevents flex between control arms).
- lightweight wheels and performance tires ~ there are soooo many different ways that you could go about this, and even the stock oz wheels aren't very heavy. i'm a sucker for performance japanese wheels (in reasonable sizes) these days, so i'm a bit biased in choice. i'll outline which ones i'd buy and why after i get through performance suggestions. as far as tires go, something all season, street legal, and grippy is your best bet... something along the lines of toyo proxies t1-s, yokohama es100, etc, etc.
- if you do end up with some real performance parts (i'm not talking about the intake/exhaust rice special), you may consider brake upgrades as well. a good friend of mine did this first because he has a wandering eye one the road and needed to compensate for his reaction time. my philosophy on this was always "go fast, stop fast."
performance:
seriously, ditch the intake/header/exhaust idea for now and focus on what's going to give you best bang for your buck. i would put suspension before performance for the raw fact that this car responds VERY well to suspension parts. when you do decide that some performance is in order, check your wallet then take a nice long look at forced induction. think about the cost of parts that are going to do next to nothing noticable to your vehicle... $200 for a CAI? are you kidding me? $200 to gain 8 hp at it's peak gain... sounds like a waste of money when you could add ~90 whp on a $3000 mod (rrm non-ic). a HUGE misconception is that 15hp from header ($500) + 8hp from intake ($200) = 23hp for $700. this is so wrong that it pisses me off all over the place. if the intake is achieving an 8 hp gain at 4200 rpm (this is theoretical) and the header is achieving 15hp at 5500 rpm (again, theoretical), then no where on the power band will you actually be acheiving 23hp. in fact, you'll probably be lucky to see 18hp total ANYWHERE on the curve. you'd have to be ready to drop a pretty penny to have a reliable (and worthwhile setup) at even turbo/header/exhaust, but don't waste the money you do have in the mean time on parts that do nothing but make noise and help you join a crowd of people that wasted money the same way you did. it's like intake/exhaust civics.. there are more of those on the road than stock ones.
exterior modding opinions...
- okay, so you've been eyeing this new body kit and rim set for a while now... only $700 shipped on the kit.. great deal, right? you can pick up some cheap tires for about $100 each for your new 17x7.5 enkei knock-offs (which only cost you $500), and now all you have to do is get it installed and painted. imo, you'll now be about $2000 out and you'll still have something that is not only bulky/ugly, but also has NO performance to speak of. i understand, a lot of people like this style and i'm not dying to start a flame war, i'm just stating my opinion. if you consider yourself a part of a performance car community, then at least show some performance. it's funny how people will have $4000 for their body kit/rims/stereo but $0 for the turbo kit and suspension they could have purchased.
if you are at least a bit vain (like me... hell, we all are), then here are my suggestions for some exterior jobbing
+ if you went for the coilovers, you should already have a very aggressive drop going for you that not only screams sexy, but also anti-body-roll. all a body kit would do for you is allow you to drop less and roll more. does this make sense?
+ the front exterior is really all that needs some touching up.. you already have (imo) the best grill you can get for the car, and i've ALWAYS thought that black looked dead sexy on a stock lancer. if you need something else though, you could consider the rmr (http://www.rmrproducts.com) front lip. it would replace the stock oz front lip and help add to the evoVII-ish look you already have going from the grill http://www.rodmillenstore.com/images/RMRLA054.jpg . if it were me, i would probably ditch the aftermarket tails as well, but some like the look. i like stock =).
+lastly, wheels. yes, i'm a japanese wheel *****, and i think none would look better than a set of 16x7.5 advan rcii (gold). run a +45 offset and you should be good to go. there are plenty of threads about matching tire size to wheels (even ones by me, haha), so just run a search if that interests you. i'm actually liking the sounds of this so much that i want another lancer...
all-in-all, that would probably run you $9000+, but it's a project, right? i had dreams like this for my lancer and for my 240, but i have to sell since i'm a starving uw student. i understand what it's like to save up for parts on $8/hour, but you'll be FAR more satisifed in the end if you do things right the first time. i know that it's hard when you have $500 in your wallet and you know that you could buy that nice new head unit or some cheap (used) wheels, but just keep saving and a deal may come along in the mean time. if the money is really burning a hole in your pocket, go for things like the strut tower bars first, and work your way up in price. just my advice if you want some beautiful, good handing, and fast anti-rice.
---------------
A couple more things that I would like to address are interior mods and engine internals. There is yet another popular misconception that forced induction means that you NEED all new engine internals. One of the reasons I suggested the RRM non-ic turbo kit is for this reason exactly; you will not need internal upgrades. While it is true that the engine will lose some life for this added gain, it is VERY unlikely that it will lose the ability to upgraded/updated in the future. The non-ic kit itself can be upgraded (for lack of better terminology) to make more power and to take advantage of other mods. I was merely listing a great (once again, imo) starting point that would be more aggressive, cost-wise. This also falls directly into the reason I suggested coilovers vs lowering springs (for more performance minded drivers). Not because lowering springs are for no one, but because you're not about to turn some soft springs into a decent coilover setup as readily as you would a non-ic kit to a intercooled one. I hope this is clear.
As far as interior mods go, it would really depend on what you intend to do with the car (and your income). I'm going to have to assume that most people with lancers would have an EVO if only cash permitted, so I'm guessing that you're not all Mr/Mrs Moneybags. Ideally, you'd go for something along the lines of a roll cage (I won't say what exactly, since most have seen enough to have an idea of what they like), and some well built seats and harnesses. I know that it's probably my Japanese products ***** self taking over (or the fact that I've spent WAYY too much time in the drifting community), but I would recommend Bride seats and Takata harnesses. These would give you more than enough safety and would meet safety requirments at likely any place you would wish to drive. There's a whole flurry of different seat/harness manufacturers out there though, so don't just take my recommendation as scripture. You'll want to pick not only what provides upmost protection and safety, but also what matches your finances. There are also hundreds of different ways to setup gauges, so really just pick whatever you like best. As far as car audio goes... I like to save my good sounding tunes for home. The stock stereo more than fit my needs, but you may want to go in the direction of an mp3 head unit and maybe some upgraded components. I honestly would stay away from things like dvd head units and expensive woofers since that money could be better spent (should i say it again?... why yes... IMO). I won't go too far in this direction since I feel it is really opposite of what I'm trying to communicate.
But really what I can suggest more than anything else, is try to push the limits of your car (safely; closed courses are a good example of SAFELY) and decide if the whole modding experience is really for you. Knowing your car to a T and being the best driver that you can with what you have will make EVERY mod that much more rewarding. I'll also mention that every mod you do will move you up in classes in auto-x, so it would be in your best interests to upgrade your car progressively, no matter how much cash you have. Events such as local auto-x and bmwcca will give you driving experience that you'll NEVER be able to experience on the road.
Edit: I feel that I need to add that this is really geared toward 02/03 Lancer owners. I'm sure that the information could be useful to other people, but I feel that it will be most useful to the target audience.
Not too long ago (less than an hour, actually) I spent quite a bit of time making suggestions for a member's black 02/03 Lancer. Many of the references in the post that may seem a bit out of context are to his RRM front grill and depo tail lights. I feel that this thread should be posted where it is more visible since it addresses many of the "what should i do" questions that surface all too often. This is just my opinion... I've owned a few cars (that were all from what you'd call, "different import scenes"), and I feel I do have some space to voice this. In the past I've created other suggestion threads which seemed to be useful, so hopefully this one will be as well. Thanks for reading.
original post:
---------------
the exterior looks really clean right now... don't rice your car out with the off-brand body parts available. build yourself some nice footworks, work with the engine (and when i say work with, i mean turbocharge because that's the only way you'll make any power on this thing for the money you'll spend), then decide if anything else exterior wise is even worthwhile. maybe the rmr type 2 lip, but simple really is hottt on these cars. if i had only known what i know now, i would have NEVER had 18s on my lancer (oh well, it's sold anyway). since you asked for opinion, this is what i would do:
footworks:
- tein superstreet ($1250) ~ the 7/5 should be more than stiff enough and you will want adjustable dampening down the road when you conclude how best to take advantage of your driving abilities http://www.tein.co.jp
- front and rear strut bars ~ would highly recommend rrm for this task... would also recommend that you do this before coilovers since you really should decide if you want that kind of drop for looks or performance. you may find that your driving abilities will never justify the price of a coilover setup. you may decide that you not only need coilovers, but you also need odds and ends such as tie bars (stiffens and prevents flex between control arms).
- lightweight wheels and performance tires ~ there are soooo many different ways that you could go about this, and even the stock oz wheels aren't very heavy. i'm a sucker for performance japanese wheels (in reasonable sizes) these days, so i'm a bit biased in choice. i'll outline which ones i'd buy and why after i get through performance suggestions. as far as tires go, something all season, street legal, and grippy is your best bet... something along the lines of toyo proxies t1-s, yokohama es100, etc, etc.
- if you do end up with some real performance parts (i'm not talking about the intake/exhaust rice special), you may consider brake upgrades as well. a good friend of mine did this first because he has a wandering eye one the road and needed to compensate for his reaction time. my philosophy on this was always "go fast, stop fast."
performance:
seriously, ditch the intake/header/exhaust idea for now and focus on what's going to give you best bang for your buck. i would put suspension before performance for the raw fact that this car responds VERY well to suspension parts. when you do decide that some performance is in order, check your wallet then take a nice long look at forced induction. think about the cost of parts that are going to do next to nothing noticable to your vehicle... $200 for a CAI? are you kidding me? $200 to gain 8 hp at it's peak gain... sounds like a waste of money when you could add ~90 whp on a $3000 mod (rrm non-ic). a HUGE misconception is that 15hp from header ($500) + 8hp from intake ($200) = 23hp for $700. this is so wrong that it pisses me off all over the place. if the intake is achieving an 8 hp gain at 4200 rpm (this is theoretical) and the header is achieving 15hp at 5500 rpm (again, theoretical), then no where on the power band will you actually be acheiving 23hp. in fact, you'll probably be lucky to see 18hp total ANYWHERE on the curve. you'd have to be ready to drop a pretty penny to have a reliable (and worthwhile setup) at even turbo/header/exhaust, but don't waste the money you do have in the mean time on parts that do nothing but make noise and help you join a crowd of people that wasted money the same way you did. it's like intake/exhaust civics.. there are more of those on the road than stock ones.
exterior modding opinions...
- okay, so you've been eyeing this new body kit and rim set for a while now... only $700 shipped on the kit.. great deal, right? you can pick up some cheap tires for about $100 each for your new 17x7.5 enkei knock-offs (which only cost you $500), and now all you have to do is get it installed and painted. imo, you'll now be about $2000 out and you'll still have something that is not only bulky/ugly, but also has NO performance to speak of. i understand, a lot of people like this style and i'm not dying to start a flame war, i'm just stating my opinion. if you consider yourself a part of a performance car community, then at least show some performance. it's funny how people will have $4000 for their body kit/rims/stereo but $0 for the turbo kit and suspension they could have purchased.
if you are at least a bit vain (like me... hell, we all are), then here are my suggestions for some exterior jobbing
+ if you went for the coilovers, you should already have a very aggressive drop going for you that not only screams sexy, but also anti-body-roll. all a body kit would do for you is allow you to drop less and roll more. does this make sense?
+ the front exterior is really all that needs some touching up.. you already have (imo) the best grill you can get for the car, and i've ALWAYS thought that black looked dead sexy on a stock lancer. if you need something else though, you could consider the rmr (http://www.rmrproducts.com) front lip. it would replace the stock oz front lip and help add to the evoVII-ish look you already have going from the grill http://www.rodmillenstore.com/images/RMRLA054.jpg . if it were me, i would probably ditch the aftermarket tails as well, but some like the look. i like stock =).
+lastly, wheels. yes, i'm a japanese wheel *****, and i think none would look better than a set of 16x7.5 advan rcii (gold). run a +45 offset and you should be good to go. there are plenty of threads about matching tire size to wheels (even ones by me, haha), so just run a search if that interests you. i'm actually liking the sounds of this so much that i want another lancer...
all-in-all, that would probably run you $9000+, but it's a project, right? i had dreams like this for my lancer and for my 240, but i have to sell since i'm a starving uw student. i understand what it's like to save up for parts on $8/hour, but you'll be FAR more satisifed in the end if you do things right the first time. i know that it's hard when you have $500 in your wallet and you know that you could buy that nice new head unit or some cheap (used) wheels, but just keep saving and a deal may come along in the mean time. if the money is really burning a hole in your pocket, go for things like the strut tower bars first, and work your way up in price. just my advice if you want some beautiful, good handing, and fast anti-rice.
---------------
A couple more things that I would like to address are interior mods and engine internals. There is yet another popular misconception that forced induction means that you NEED all new engine internals. One of the reasons I suggested the RRM non-ic turbo kit is for this reason exactly; you will not need internal upgrades. While it is true that the engine will lose some life for this added gain, it is VERY unlikely that it will lose the ability to upgraded/updated in the future. The non-ic kit itself can be upgraded (for lack of better terminology) to make more power and to take advantage of other mods. I was merely listing a great (once again, imo) starting point that would be more aggressive, cost-wise. This also falls directly into the reason I suggested coilovers vs lowering springs (for more performance minded drivers). Not because lowering springs are for no one, but because you're not about to turn some soft springs into a decent coilover setup as readily as you would a non-ic kit to a intercooled one. I hope this is clear.
As far as interior mods go, it would really depend on what you intend to do with the car (and your income). I'm going to have to assume that most people with lancers would have an EVO if only cash permitted, so I'm guessing that you're not all Mr/Mrs Moneybags. Ideally, you'd go for something along the lines of a roll cage (I won't say what exactly, since most have seen enough to have an idea of what they like), and some well built seats and harnesses. I know that it's probably my Japanese products ***** self taking over (or the fact that I've spent WAYY too much time in the drifting community), but I would recommend Bride seats and Takata harnesses. These would give you more than enough safety and would meet safety requirments at likely any place you would wish to drive. There's a whole flurry of different seat/harness manufacturers out there though, so don't just take my recommendation as scripture. You'll want to pick not only what provides upmost protection and safety, but also what matches your finances. There are also hundreds of different ways to setup gauges, so really just pick whatever you like best. As far as car audio goes... I like to save my good sounding tunes for home. The stock stereo more than fit my needs, but you may want to go in the direction of an mp3 head unit and maybe some upgraded components. I honestly would stay away from things like dvd head units and expensive woofers since that money could be better spent (should i say it again?... why yes... IMO). I won't go too far in this direction since I feel it is really opposite of what I'm trying to communicate.
But really what I can suggest more than anything else, is try to push the limits of your car (safely; closed courses are a good example of SAFELY) and decide if the whole modding experience is really for you. Knowing your car to a T and being the best driver that you can with what you have will make EVERY mod that much more rewarding. I'll also mention that every mod you do will move you up in classes in auto-x, so it would be in your best interests to upgrade your car progressively, no matter how much cash you have. Events such as local auto-x and bmwcca will give you driving experience that you'll NEVER be able to experience on the road.
Last edited by kensuke; Jan 29, 2005 at 01:23 PM.
Here is a list of the companies that I made reference to and their respective websites.
Tein (Suspension) http://www.tein.com or http://www.tein.co.jp
RRM (Everything) http://www.roadracemotorsports.com
RMR (For the lip kit, but they do other things as well) http://www.rmrproducts.com
Toyo (Tires) http://www.toyo.com
Yokohama (Tires) http://www.yokohamatire.com
Bride (Seats) http://www.bride-jp.com or http://www.tees-usa.com (US version website)
Takata (Harness) http://www.tein.co.jp/takatae.html (English page)
Advan (Wheels) http://www.advan.com
Feel free to add on if I missed any (please don't list head unit manufactures of brief mentions such as Enkei)
Tein (Suspension) http://www.tein.com or http://www.tein.co.jp
RRM (Everything) http://www.roadracemotorsports.com
RMR (For the lip kit, but they do other things as well) http://www.rmrproducts.com
Toyo (Tires) http://www.toyo.com
Yokohama (Tires) http://www.yokohamatire.com
Bride (Seats) http://www.bride-jp.com or http://www.tees-usa.com (US version website)
Takata (Harness) http://www.tein.co.jp/takatae.html (English page)
Advan (Wheels) http://www.advan.com
Feel free to add on if I missed any (please don't list head unit manufactures of brief mentions such as Enkei)
this is great for someone like me or anyone who's got that question in their mind "what should i do first?", and he's got some pretty good reasonings on each part...which no one should hate on...specially when it's his own opinion.
thanks for the insight...and hopefully people who are in the same boat as me get a chance to read this
thanks for the insight...and hopefully people who are in the same boat as me get a chance to read this
Originally Posted by kensuke
as far as tires go, something all season, street legal, and grippy is your best bet... something along the lines of toyo proxies t1-s, yokohama es100, etc, etc.
-N
That was a very good read. It will help allot of people with their rides for sure. Personally, I am happy that I did my Intake and Exhaust. You might see it as a waste, but I get far more satisfaction from doing something on my car over saving my money for a turbo I might never be able to afford. Moding my car for me is the fun part. The most important thing to remember when modding your car is that it is yours. Do what you want to do with it and enjoy the ride.
Fox
Fox
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Originally Posted by neilschelly
I just want to clarify here and you really should adjust your post to keep from misleading people who are reading this. Those tire suggestions are anything but all-season. Anyone who buys those for all-season handling will be committing themselves to the rear end of another car very soon. Even cold weather would probably be bad for rubber so soft, so they are 3-season tires at best. No one should run these tires in any snowy, slushy, icy, or even muddy weather.
-N
-N
.As far as your safety concern goes, it is justified and makes for a good time to note that running snow tires for the winter is a good move. They're one of the few things in this world that aren't a sham in the winter months. I prefer to just garage my nice car and drive a piecer for the winter, though.
To the other comments: thank you for your kind words! I try to include enough detail to make it readily readable to anyone, but not so much that the target audience is overwelmed by acronyms, etc. If anyone wants me to elaborate on anything specifically, just let me know.
About Dave@Accolade, I was honestly surprised to see that one of the first to reply to this thread (and leave positive feedback) happened to be working for a body kit manufacturer. This proves the intelligence and overall civil attitude of the people on this forum. He knows that no matter what I say, people who want a quality kit for a good price will go to him. I hope he also knows that a nice (and cheap) lip kit (maybe even similar to rmr) would constitute me giving a big
anyday.
Last edited by kensuke; Jan 28, 2005 at 10:07 AM.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Jacksonville, FL
i agree totally you actually just described my lancer...i down have pics...nor do i wanna post them...any ways that's my lancer. black, slammed, no bodykit...but lots of all motor mods. i agree with you 100% except with turbo...imma big all motor fan.
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
From: Montreal, Canada
Thanks for the info, because I wanted to go N/A. I wonder, then, how much it would cost to get about 160 to 180whp N/A? From your post, sounds like it would be very pricey! If I/H/E are not worth it, how work on the internals, and then a bigger turbo later on ? I realize you're talking about cost effectiveness, in which case you do have a point ...
i don't like cheaping out though, i prefer to wait and get exactly what i want. besides, i've had my lancer nearly 2 years now, so i'm in no rush :P
i don't like cheaping out though, i prefer to wait and get exactly what i want. besides, i've had my lancer nearly 2 years now, so i'm in no rush :P