lancer is overheating
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: chicago
ok ok, i had about 30 mins to play with the car today. coolant if fine. I checked the upper hose once the car was warm and it feels the t-stat is doing its job.
i start it up in the garage let it run. nothing wrong. car doesn't overheat according the gauge. The fans kick on and all is well. i tell my gf and she goes turns on the AC. it takes a WHILE but it does get hotter then normal. since most of the time its at the middle but its at the upper 3/4 mark and then lowers down. I can hear the difference between in the fans with the AC on.
i looked at the fan controller and the FSM's tests. standard value was good with just the key on, the 3 pin harness. Now here is something i noticed... the next test was the connecting going to AC fan. ( AC is on the pass side and normal cooling is on the driver side)
I'm not sure if i was doing it right. Here is what the FSM said.
3. Connect the fan controller connector, and disconnect the
condenser fan motor connector.
4. Ensure that the A/C switch is off, and start the engine and
run it at idle.
5. Measure the voltage between the fan controller-side
connector terminals.
Standard value: 1V or less
now i measure the 2 pins on the controller and it gave me a zero reading. i measured the harness which shouldn't get power since i disconnected just in case and no reading. So i see a problem in the values but the next test states
6. Turn the A/C switch to the ON position.
WARNING
Stay clear of the fan when the fan starts running.
7. Measure the voltage between the fan controller-side
connector terminals while the fan is running. The voltage
should repeat the values 1) and 2) below.
Standard value:
1) 8.2 ± 2.6 V
2) Battery positive voltage ± 2.6 V
8. If the voltage does not repeate
doing this test on the controller with the AC on I got like a 13-14v reading. which is B+ + that 2.6V. that looks to be within specs. I dont know how to get the first value.
After i did this my girlfriend had to go take care of some things so she took the car. so right now it seems to me that the fan controller is bad on the AC specs. Can someone go out and try it on their car? It doesn't take too long. Just pull the plug on the fan controller that is facing the pass side and with the car on and AC off measure see what those 2 pins are giving off.
cliff notes: car seems to only get HOTTER then normal with AC on after a while. measure fan controller specs for the AC fan terminal with the AC off and didn't get the expected value, but with the AC on got the expect value. I'm not sure if the car is really overheating or not.
Fan controller box is $115 from my dealership and $75 shipped online. I really dont want to spend the money only to find its not broken.
i start it up in the garage let it run. nothing wrong. car doesn't overheat according the gauge. The fans kick on and all is well. i tell my gf and she goes turns on the AC. it takes a WHILE but it does get hotter then normal. since most of the time its at the middle but its at the upper 3/4 mark and then lowers down. I can hear the difference between in the fans with the AC on.
i looked at the fan controller and the FSM's tests. standard value was good with just the key on, the 3 pin harness. Now here is something i noticed... the next test was the connecting going to AC fan. ( AC is on the pass side and normal cooling is on the driver side)
I'm not sure if i was doing it right. Here is what the FSM said.
3. Connect the fan controller connector, and disconnect the
condenser fan motor connector.
4. Ensure that the A/C switch is off, and start the engine and
run it at idle.
5. Measure the voltage between the fan controller-side
connector terminals.
Standard value: 1V or less
now i measure the 2 pins on the controller and it gave me a zero reading. i measured the harness which shouldn't get power since i disconnected just in case and no reading. So i see a problem in the values but the next test states
6. Turn the A/C switch to the ON position.
WARNING
Stay clear of the fan when the fan starts running.
7. Measure the voltage between the fan controller-side
connector terminals while the fan is running. The voltage
should repeat the values 1) and 2) below.
Standard value:
1) 8.2 ± 2.6 V
2) Battery positive voltage ± 2.6 V
8. If the voltage does not repeate
doing this test on the controller with the AC on I got like a 13-14v reading. which is B+ + that 2.6V. that looks to be within specs. I dont know how to get the first value.
After i did this my girlfriend had to go take care of some things so she took the car. so right now it seems to me that the fan controller is bad on the AC specs. Can someone go out and try it on their car? It doesn't take too long. Just pull the plug on the fan controller that is facing the pass side and with the car on and AC off measure see what those 2 pins are giving off.
cliff notes: car seems to only get HOTTER then normal with AC on after a while. measure fan controller specs for the AC fan terminal with the AC off and didn't get the expected value, but with the AC on got the expect value. I'm not sure if the car is really overheating or not.
Fan controller box is $115 from my dealership and $75 shipped online. I really dont want to spend the money only to find its not broken.
I need you to measure the pinout voltage from the fan controller to the AC fan. When the car is on and AC off. I'm clearly getting a dead zero with the AC off but i'm getting specs with the AC on. But the car seems to overheat with the AC on, which doesn't make much sense. if it over heats with the AC off and i dont get voltage it would make clear sense.
I'll bet you a pennie(1¢) your thermostat is the problem!
Compare both quotes... It pretty obvious AC has very little impact on your problem. It may make it worst, but don't base your results on AC.
A thermostat is going to run you about 10$ and 20 minutes of your time. If you don't feel like doing the thermostat, at least rule out "air". If you got air in your cooling system, you'll have very similar issues to what you are describing in this thread.
To let any air out of the system...
1. With the car cool(NOT HOT), open the rad cap
2. Fire up the engine and wait
3. Let the car warm up
4. Open the bleed screw and let the air out. Let the bleed open until you get a steady stream of coolant coming out.
5. No more air or bubbles coming out? Close the bleeder, put the rad cap back on and check do your tests to see if it still overheats.
If you still overheating, dish out the 10$ and get a new thermostat.
same drive thru, same problem. this time before it hot to the redzone in hot i told her to pull over to a spot, this was like 3/4 up, A/C was off and i looked both fans seem to be running and the second we started moving, say like a couple feet it immediately goes back down to the mid-point ( normal level)
cliff notes: car seems to only get HOTTER then normal with AC on after a while. measure fan controller specs for the AC fan terminal with the AC off and didn't get the expected value, but with the AC on got the expect value. I'm not sure if the car is really overheating or not.
A thermostat is going to run you about 10$ and 20 minutes of your time. If you don't feel like doing the thermostat, at least rule out "air". If you got air in your cooling system, you'll have very similar issues to what you are describing in this thread.
To let any air out of the system...
1. With the car cool(NOT HOT), open the rad cap
2. Fire up the engine and wait
3. Let the car warm up
4. Open the bleed screw and let the air out. Let the bleed open until you get a steady stream of coolant coming out.
5. No more air or bubbles coming out? Close the bleeder, put the rad cap back on and check do your tests to see if it still overheats.
If you still overheating, dish out the 10$ and get a new thermostat.
Last edited by blaze_125; Jul 10, 2009 at 12:14 PM.
A relay has 1 job -> Turn On/Turn Off
The fans are running, so the relay is doing what it's supposed to do.
Or am I missing something?
Sorry if I missed it in the thread, but my understanding is the car overheats while the fans are running. If that's the case, he's not testing the right components.
Is it a recall, or a TSB? A TSB is not covered if your warranty expired.
Last edited by blaze_125; Jul 10, 2009 at 12:31 PM.
^^
The relay goes to **** and basically will not turn on the fan when it needs to. So, the fan is off and the engine overheats. I didnt really read the entire thread so oopsies if I missed something. It is a Recall on the 02-03's.
The relay goes to **** and basically will not turn on the fan when it needs to. So, the fan is off and the engine overheats. I didnt really read the entire thread so oopsies if I missed something. It is a Recall on the 02-03's.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 75
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From: chicago
i have a 03 oz rally.
1. its not a recall, there is a recall in the cooling system for clips or something about the hoses. Or if it was a recall the car has it done already as i went to the dealership and they ran it, no open recalls. which leads me to believe its either a TSB or its been done.
2. The car is slowly overheating with the AC on and both fans are spinning. Reason why i didn't rule out the ran controller relay is the values i got wasn't withing the specs. Now the fan controller is doing its job by turning on the fan but it might not be spinning the fan fast enough due to low output voltage from the controller box.
I didn't post up that i ruled out air in the system but i did, i ran the car with the cap off, so all the air pockets would boil out pretty much. There was no bubble found which leads to believe that no air was in the system to begin with and there is certainly no air in the system now. I've put off the 60k service till next month because we ran into a couple of things but i might just spring for the t-stat now.
1. its not a recall, there is a recall in the cooling system for clips or something about the hoses. Or if it was a recall the car has it done already as i went to the dealership and they ran it, no open recalls. which leads me to believe its either a TSB or its been done.
2. The car is slowly overheating with the AC on and both fans are spinning. Reason why i didn't rule out the ran controller relay is the values i got wasn't withing the specs. Now the fan controller is doing its job by turning on the fan but it might not be spinning the fan fast enough due to low output voltage from the controller box.
I didn't post up that i ruled out air in the system but i did, i ran the car with the cap off, so all the air pockets would boil out pretty much. There was no bubble found which leads to believe that no air was in the system to begin with and there is certainly no air in the system now. I've put off the 60k service till next month because we ran into a couple of things but i might just spring for the t-stat now.
That's where I'd start. It's the cheapest and easiest to change, and in my opinion, very likely to be the problem. There is something you can do before you change the thermostat. Hardwire the fans. If you still overheat with hardwired fans, you'll know for sure the fan relay is not the problem.
And I just remembered what the recall was for. It was the rad cap. The valve in the cap would not open when the engine cooled down and the lower rad hose would colapse.
And I just remembered what the recall was for. It was the rad cap. The valve in the cap would not open when the engine cooled down and the lower rad hose would colapse.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 75
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From: chicago
nope, i wont have the car till the weekend or monday. if the parts make it here friday i might have a crack at it saturday.
actually i was thinking about that. Now there is a lot of ways to do it, but i figure most logical way is pull the fan plus and just give it 12v/ and ground. but that will only apply to the rad. fan and not the AC fan. I noticed both fans kick on.
So would make more sense to hardwire both?
actually i was thinking about that. Now there is a lot of ways to do it, but i figure most logical way is pull the fan plus and just give it 12v/ and ground. but that will only apply to the rad. fan and not the AC fan. I noticed both fans kick on.
So would make more sense to hardwire both?
I believe the only thing hardwiring will do is bypass everything else and tell you for sure if the motors in the fans work and my understanding is they do come on but seems a little sporadic right? Correct me if I am wrong but, If so wouldnt hardwiring tell you some thing you already know? That the fan motors themselves are good?
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 75
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From: chicago
i really wasn't too focused on the fans when i had a chance to look, I just saw and heard them kick on and both were on, i was more focused on the needle, i glanced every now and then, they do cycle on and off, not sure if one or both. never looked that detailed.
well T-stat first and then on the the fans. hopefully that should be the end of this problem.
well T-stat first and then on the the fans. hopefully that should be the end of this problem.
I believe the only thing hardwiring will do is bypass everything else and tell you for sure if the motors in the fans work and my understanding is they do come on but seems a little sporadic right? Correct me if I am wrong but, If so wouldnt hardwiring tell you some thing you already know? That the fan motors themselves are good?
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 75
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From: chicago
i just installed the t-stat and boil out all the air pockets. But thats all i had time for. Drove the car around and no signs of overheating.
On a sidenote, the GATES t-stat i picked up from rockauto had a flaw if anyone was going to use it. the OEM t-stat was centered were as the GATES branded was not, it was a offset to the upper side. So with the gasket in place it would never fit in there nicely. The t-stat bare without the gasket and the upper edge is almost rubbing but with the thick gasket it surely would not fix in there nicely. I had to force its way in there with a screw driver and a lot of pressure.
Its in now and hopefully all is well. I'll report back in a couple of days when she gets a lot of driving done.
On a sidenote, the GATES t-stat i picked up from rockauto had a flaw if anyone was going to use it. the OEM t-stat was centered were as the GATES branded was not, it was a offset to the upper side. So with the gasket in place it would never fit in there nicely. The t-stat bare without the gasket and the upper edge is almost rubbing but with the thick gasket it surely would not fix in there nicely. I had to force its way in there with a screw driver and a lot of pressure.
Its in now and hopefully all is well. I'll report back in a couple of days when she gets a lot of driving done.