Be you own judge:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae...y.php?id=33562

It looks like that we might bet on damn good trainy as the result of this effort!!

Also, this is not a good news for the future STi 6 speed trainy owners...

Fedja
ps. watch out since you have only a few accesses to the AutoExpress pages as a guest...

 

350bhp Impreza Muscles In

Things move fast at Subaru... very fast. Although the new Impreza has only just arrived, the firm is already plotting to unleash an STi model that could end the Japanese supercar debate with Mitsubishi once and for all.

A senior source at the company told Auto Express: "Subaru has something quite special in the pipeline. We're now working on a 3.0-litre turbo Impreza for Japan and Europe that will generate in excess of 350bhp.

"Unfortunately, we're having teething problems with the transmission as the current WRX STi six-speed box isn't capable of handling the torque the engine produces." Several solutions are being investigated, with the most popular being to ask a company such as Getrag, which has much experience in building heavy-duty gearboxes, to work on the transmission.

But before you race down to your nearest dealer, bear in mind how long this is likely to take. Development of the car is said to be very complicated. Our source suggests we won't see the 3.0-litre turbo powering a Subaru until the next Impreza model change, due in 2007. However, anyone wanting a taste of what's to come should be aware a muscular 3.0-litre normally aspirated engine - the platform for the turbo unit - will be used in the new Legacy, here in June. Subaru says the non-turbo will pump out close to 240bhp, which is 25bhp over the current car's output.

The company also plans to scrap the twin-turbo 2.0-litre engine that powers the Japan-only Legacy B4 - a car British Subaru fans had coveted. This motor will be replaced by a 2.0-litre single-turbo B4, which will use the unit that debuted in the Impreza STi. The reworked Legacy arrives next year.
Peter Lyon


Fedja

 

Hmm, a 3.0 + boost + Getrag? Sounds like a good solution to me. Subaru.

 

Yes very good, I'm hoping that setup makes it into a Legacy that comes stateside as well. The S401 is the best looking vehicle Subaru has right now IMO. Reminds me of a BMW. The 3.0T in a Legacy actually makes more sense though. With them just developing a 2.5t in the Impreza, why not stick with that. Also, it doesn't say how much torque it produces, but at 3.0l it should be close to it's HP output. I have a hard time believing they'd have tranny issues at 350ft lbs, but not at 300ft lbs as in the US STI. I know some of you guys would be quick to say, well maybe the US STI WILL have tranny issues. Possibly, but there's already people over here running some pretty good numbers on the STI 6 speed without any problems. Which leads me to believe the setup IS going into a Legacy and the rumor got botched somewhere along the line. The added weight of a Legacy would put more stress on the tranny than the same setup in a lighter Impreza. Plus, I've heard Subaru wants the next generation Impreza to get back to it's roots and loose some weight. Kinda hard to do if you introduce a bigger engine(exterior dimensions are the same on all the EJ motors, 1.8, 2.0, 2.2 or 2.5 don't matter). Sure this is just speculation, but the press report was only a rumor. Rumors with Subaru are notoriously bad.

 

A 3 liter Impreza? BOOO. The EJ25 in the US STi is already blasphemy since it's not the traditional 2 liter (but who loves torqe!? I DO!). I think it will just get the car to nose heavy and really jerk with the handling in a compact car. Keep the big engines in the Legacy. Mm...Legacy Blitz (not Blitzen for me, not damn reindeers in this house).

 

agreed 100% - I can't get to like the new STi... 2.5 litres is just not right imo. kinda like Chev C5R - either produce a 7 litre C5 production car, or go back to the 5.7 in the C5R - these are immitations of race vehicles, and should maintain as much in common with them as possible.... just my 2 cents

 

Ya, I'm not much for that either.

 

Glad you all agree. It's not that the exorbitant power available wouldn't be nice, take the new S4 for example which gets bumped to a biturbo V8, it's just that the weight penalty worries me. Plus, the cars have their own history to speak for them on their abilities to create power readily and easily. No sense in messing with a good thing. Going along the lines of how the 4G63 was improved over time, is perhaps how Subaru should look at their more than competent motors. The EJ20 has performed admirably, but arguably not as well as the 'G63, but even a small change on an engine can yield great results. Then again, there is no replacement for displacement which all their motors have as well (at least in the us: EJ25 and the 3 liter H6 in the Legacy here).

 

Well I wouldn't really mind having a 3.0 H6 turbo in the Impreza, I just think it will actually be in the Legacy. The weight penalty wouldn't be as bad as you guys think assuming it's based off the current EZ series H6(it's only a fraction of an inch longer than the EJ series 4 cylinders). I'd take the few extra pounds for the extra cylinders, displacement, and the natural balance of a flat 6.

Oh and the new S4 actually uses an N/A V8 and according to audi the engine weighs about the same as the V6 biturbo.

IMO, there's nothing wrong with moving up to a larger engine as long as it doesn't make the car a pig. Every other performance car does it eventually through it's history. Thinking the STI and EVO should stick with 2.0 just because the WRC car has to just doesn't make sense. Sure there's the nostalgia, but c'mon what would you rather have nostalgia or a faster car.

 

I guess you don't quite get some of our thinking do you? I am much more impressed with a car, when more can be had through less. Just going and making it bigger, that is the easy way out and anybody can do that. It is also the American muscle car mentality. I don't dig it. It doesn't apeal to me. It never has. Now if Subaru through the marvels of their engineering talent, went down to a 1.6L and accomplished the same thing, I would be much more impressed. This is the beauty of 2L 4 banners. Most people don't expect it to do what it does.

 

another thing i haven't heard yet is california emissions... all i know is that the powered-down evo we get is barely squeaking past the emissions test. im not sure how subaru is doing now, but im pretty sure we wouldn't be able to get that 350hp version over here (hell, they'll probably tune it down to like 280hp just to spit in mitsubishi face) and not to mention, the evo's a LOT easier on the eyes than a wrx (although the new headlight have helped a bit)

 

Well given US emissions and gas, don't expect a 2 liter EVO or any thing else for that matter to make much more than 271 stock. To make more than that stock they HAD to go bigger. Now when you talk modifications, you mod to get to the H6's rumored 350hp but have nowhere near the lowend power and have a higher stressed engine. Put a few mods into the H6 and bye bye 2.0. The whole impressive HP per liter arguement the Honda boys started just seems like a way to make loosing feel better. No offense, but how does that have any relevence when another car with a bigger, less stressed, more powerful engine is walking away from you. Mod for mod, a larger engine WILL make more power. I see the appeal of beating cars that wouldn't expect to be beat by a 2l 4 banger. However, it would be more appealing to me to go after bigger fish with a modded 3.0l H6. Plus it's in a Subaru which is rather unexpected no matter what's under the hood.

 

They're already getting a 300hp 2.5l H4 past emissions, a 350hp 3.0l H6 wouldn't be hard.

 

So, when you see the Skyline R34 (or whatever the hot ones are), do you also say "no way it is not right"?

There is nothing wrong with the bigger engines and compared between the 2.0 and 3.0, there are pluses and minuses on both sides. When you turbocharged both of them, you still get the same thing. For once, 3.0 turbo engines should be capable of producing over 1000 HP reliably, which is just a dream for the 2.0 ones.


The thing is that they are just different kind of beasts and by not looking at them through the 2.0 glasses, you can see something good in there as well!!


Have a !!

Fedja

 

I don't care if a car has 1000hp.
It's all about the power to weight ratio.
If the 350hp impreza weighs the same as the current model
(or less) it will probably cost about $45,000.
Light weight is not free.
Heavy powerful cars are made for "stoplight cowboys".
I want a car that handles and stops well.
My Porsche 951 is 330hp and weighs less than 2800#
That's what I'm talkin about.
Can't wait for my evo (paying sticker)