DC Evo Club - Dyno/Dynoflash Day Part II
Originally posted by agileauto.com
[B]how can you tell when the turbo spooled? all I gave was the toqrue and horsepower curves. actually, the car spooled reasonably FASTER than stock as we did a boost curve comparison in the computer.
[B]how can you tell when the turbo spooled? all I gave was the toqrue and horsepower curves. actually, the car spooled reasonably FASTER than stock as we did a boost curve comparison in the computer.
we do find that these turbos are nearly maxed out from the factory and insufficient for serious boost or power modification. the boost curve drops down slowly after max boost is seen.
Also, Buschur Racing was able to get (if I remember correctly) 375whp off of mods using the stock turbo. That's pretty significant, no?
what do you mean 'what's up with the toque'? If I had to guess I would imagine you are wondering how the hell this car has 1205ftlb? it does. that's measured at the wheel. mind you AFTER the gear multiplication in 4th. to get the flywheel number you need to take 1205ftlb and divide by the gear ratio 4.69, then multiply by the drivetrain loss compensation of 1.24.
then you come up around 321. pretty nice street torque if you ask me.
then you come up around 321. pretty nice street torque if you ask me.
well, as far as the power coming on faster.. yes. it did. opening the downpipe allowed the turbo output to slow down a little more out of the opening and become a normal exhaust pulse. from this happening, the turbo spools faster.
as far as the boost curve being programmed to fall off, I would believe that. for what reason they did that is beyond me... probably longevity of the engine reasons, and to ENSURE no knock... but nontheless, that is not a good street tune. when Al reflashes the system he can manipulate the factory wastegate dutycycle to an extent that appears to cancel the loss of boost for the most part anyhow. the turbo is undersized, and nothing you do will counter that. as far as that compressor wheel and housing combo being capable of 375WHP... I just don't buy it. it's not big enough period. the wheel in the factory compressor couldn't POSSIBLY be bigger than a 60trim or so... I would be interested to view a compressor map of that turbo. does anyone have one? also, what "mods" did Bushar install that gained that much power? certaintly a 3" turboback as the dyno proves only added a mere 8 or 9 horsepower to the wheel which isn't too shabby based on the fact that AFTER you tune the car you end up with about 55WHP extra. that makes it worth it... also take in to consideration that until you tune the car with new mods, you will NEVER get the gains companies assume. actually, I was quite impressed with Ian's gains. that goers to show that with the right mods and decent tuning, this car has a ****load of bang for the buck.
an additional word on Buschar racing... I wouldn't jump on the power gain claim bus too soon. If I had to use one word to describe the quality of the Buschar turboback exhaust that Ian brought me(atleast this particular unit)... disappointed. the pipes were bent(which they claim happens all the time). crappy packaging if you ask me. also, the entire system was crooked and rubbed on the center diff heat sink, BOTH of the driveshat carriers AND the rear bumper cover. Ian apparently spoke to someone from Buschar and was told "well, the exhaust is going to rub in some places... that's normal". come on, that's like saying "well, the engine is GONNA knock and ping... detonation is perfectly normal."not to mention that the instructions said there were fitment issues with the 3" turboback.(if it were not for the confusing and shortage therof of installation hardware I would not have even had to look at them)
I just don't know... either that was a "friday afternoon" exhaust, or something is going on over there at Buschar. I hate to see customers saying they "wished they had paid more for a custom exhaust so it atleast fit properly". that's bad.
anyhow, in summary, with proper tuning and proper mods I think this car could EASILY see 300WHP with the stock turbo, but boost pound for pound, 19psi is 19psi any way you cut it, and if the mods and tuning aren't right, you aren't going to see 300WHP let alone 375WHP. I think 300WHP could be met with a nice 3" turboback, an intake, adjustable cam sprockets and some quality tuning with some sort of software that allows ignition timing to be manipulated such as stand alone engine control or Al's re-flash system. if you want more than that, you are looking at fuel system upgrades, cams, and a beast turbo. Hope I didn't sound like a dick, especially with the little bit about Buschar, I am just trying to be as clear as possible.
so what date are we going to do another dyno day Aaron?
as far as the boost curve being programmed to fall off, I would believe that. for what reason they did that is beyond me... probably longevity of the engine reasons, and to ENSURE no knock... but nontheless, that is not a good street tune. when Al reflashes the system he can manipulate the factory wastegate dutycycle to an extent that appears to cancel the loss of boost for the most part anyhow. the turbo is undersized, and nothing you do will counter that. as far as that compressor wheel and housing combo being capable of 375WHP... I just don't buy it. it's not big enough period. the wheel in the factory compressor couldn't POSSIBLY be bigger than a 60trim or so... I would be interested to view a compressor map of that turbo. does anyone have one? also, what "mods" did Bushar install that gained that much power? certaintly a 3" turboback as the dyno proves only added a mere 8 or 9 horsepower to the wheel which isn't too shabby based on the fact that AFTER you tune the car you end up with about 55WHP extra. that makes it worth it... also take in to consideration that until you tune the car with new mods, you will NEVER get the gains companies assume. actually, I was quite impressed with Ian's gains. that goers to show that with the right mods and decent tuning, this car has a ****load of bang for the buck.
an additional word on Buschar racing... I wouldn't jump on the power gain claim bus too soon. If I had to use one word to describe the quality of the Buschar turboback exhaust that Ian brought me(atleast this particular unit)... disappointed. the pipes were bent(which they claim happens all the time). crappy packaging if you ask me. also, the entire system was crooked and rubbed on the center diff heat sink, BOTH of the driveshat carriers AND the rear bumper cover. Ian apparently spoke to someone from Buschar and was told "well, the exhaust is going to rub in some places... that's normal". come on, that's like saying "well, the engine is GONNA knock and ping... detonation is perfectly normal."not to mention that the instructions said there were fitment issues with the 3" turboback.(if it were not for the confusing and shortage therof of installation hardware I would not have even had to look at them)
I just don't know... either that was a "friday afternoon" exhaust, or something is going on over there at Buschar. I hate to see customers saying they "wished they had paid more for a custom exhaust so it atleast fit properly". that's bad.
anyhow, in summary, with proper tuning and proper mods I think this car could EASILY see 300WHP with the stock turbo, but boost pound for pound, 19psi is 19psi any way you cut it, and if the mods and tuning aren't right, you aren't going to see 300WHP let alone 375WHP. I think 300WHP could be met with a nice 3" turboback, an intake, adjustable cam sprockets and some quality tuning with some sort of software that allows ignition timing to be manipulated such as stand alone engine control or Al's re-flash system. if you want more than that, you are looking at fuel system upgrades, cams, and a beast turbo. Hope I didn't sound like a dick, especially with the little bit about Buschar, I am just trying to be as clear as possible.
so what date are we going to do another dyno day Aaron?
Last edited by agileauto.com; Dec 28, 2003 at 03:18 PM.
links to Buschurs claims/experience using the stock turbo.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...+turbo+Buschur
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...+turbo+Buschur
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...+turbo+Buschur
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...+turbo+Buschur
I went to the site. based on compressor efficiency, I don't see where it is physically possible to make that power with the stock turbo.. they claim shortening the upper IC piping made 40+WHP??? dude, come on...
look, I certaintly don't want to wage war against a reputable company like Buschur... I'm just saying scientifically, it doesn't add up. I think they are a good shop, and prolly the exhaust we got was one of the bad apples.. we got 279.? on Ian's car. with another 30min. of tuning we could have gotten 284 like bushcur.. the AEM intake is the same design as the BR. but let's look at the stage 2 package.. I don't get it... shortening the pipe length will only increase boost rise marginally, it should not increase max power by 40WHP. sure the factory turbo COULD produce 30psi, but you'd need a 10ft IC to cool the charge.
you do the math.
why don't you come by the shop for tuning... and get an EMANAGE so we can tweak the ignition timing too. I want to see what we can make on your car.
let me know if you want the EMANAGE... we are a dealer for 150 manufacturers including greddy, so I should be able to get a decent price. you cac view our distribution list here
look, I certaintly don't want to wage war against a reputable company like Buschur... I'm just saying scientifically, it doesn't add up. I think they are a good shop, and prolly the exhaust we got was one of the bad apples.. we got 279.? on Ian's car. with another 30min. of tuning we could have gotten 284 like bushcur.. the AEM intake is the same design as the BR. but let's look at the stage 2 package.. I don't get it... shortening the pipe length will only increase boost rise marginally, it should not increase max power by 40WHP. sure the factory turbo COULD produce 30psi, but you'd need a 10ft IC to cool the charge.
you do the math.
why don't you come by the shop for tuning... and get an EMANAGE so we can tweak the ignition timing too. I want to see what we can make on your car.
let me know if you want the EMANAGE... we are a dealer for 150 manufacturers including greddy, so I should be able to get a decent price. you cac view our distribution list here
Last edited by agileauto.com; Dec 28, 2003 at 03:51 PM.
Originally posted by agileauto.com
oh yeah, Ian, how was she running after you left the shop? was your seat of the pants dyno agreeing with the dynapack? hehehe.
oh yeah, Ian, how was she running after you left the shop? was your seat of the pants dyno agreeing with the dynapack? hehehe.
I'm going to call you guys on Monday. I just ordered a Greddy Profec B Spec II and I need someone to install it.
Unfortunately, you guys were correct about potentially having problems with boost creep/spiking. I severly need a boost controller. As it has gotten colder at night the past two days, At WOT in 3rd-5th I'm hitting fuel cut (It sounds like the engine is being shut off for a split second and the car stutter repeatedly but the SAFC isn't seeing any knock) as my boost is spiking rather rapidly to 20+ PSI levels and the car needs something to control this for driveability.
Last edited by MrBonus; Dec 28, 2003 at 06:37 PM.
Originally posted by MrBonus
Unfortunately, you guys were correct about potentially having problems with boost creep/spiking. I severly need a boost controller. As it has gotten colder at night the past two days, At WOT in 3rd-5th I'm hitting fuel cut (It sounds like the engine is being shut off for a split second and the car stutter repeatedly but the SAFC isn't seeing any knock) as my boost is spiking rather rapidly to 20+ PSI levels and the car needs something to control this for driveability.
Unfortunately, you guys were correct about potentially having problems with boost creep/spiking. I severly need a boost controller. As it has gotten colder at night the past two days, At WOT in 3rd-5th I'm hitting fuel cut (It sounds like the engine is being shut off for a split second and the car stutter repeatedly but the SAFC isn't seeing any knock) as my boost is spiking rather rapidly to 20+ PSI levels and the car needs something to control this for driveability.
sounds like you have a wastegate boost creep issue. typical with an internal wastegate and 3" downpipe. I can install the boost controller. it will help but may not resolve the problem all together. the STI's have this problem.
Originally posted by agileauto.com
sounds like you have a wastegate boost creep issue. typical with an internal wastegate and 3" downpipe. I can install the boost controller. it will help but may not resolve the problem all together. the STI's have this problem.
sounds like you have a wastegate boost creep issue. typical with an internal wastegate and 3" downpipe. I can install the boost controller. it will help but may not resolve the problem all together. the STI's have this problem.
See ya' Friday.
Originally posted by nastea
have your fuel cut raised i had that problem, i'm running 22 lbs, and i hit it all the time
have your fuel cut raised
i had that problem, i'm running 22 lbs, and i hit it all the time
Do you feel you've picked up significant power over running, say, 18-19 PSI?
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: DC area
crap. march is my designated travel month, so its quite possible i mya have to miss that one... or maybe I'll have a friend take in the evo to get flashed.... if we could do it end of march, it might be more likely that I can make it... I also agree with holding off till then... x-mas tapped me out, and now i gotta start sving for something else big... but i can prob swing it, especially if its late march after travelling... I can eat crackers and save up on perdiem.