I would like to start a discussion about turbo/power mod choices specifically for us track day guys.

To date Robi & I have been focusing on the suspension of the car and getting rid of weight and adding areo. Power has been neglected and it is time to focus more on that and put my aero to real use. At this point my car is a Buschur stage 4 car (w/ 272's) with an old mail in flash, car runs about 10.5 afr @ WOT (17psi). I just got a safc2 that I will mess with, but I know I am going to want more than the 9.8 hotside can produce.

At this moment I am pretty certain on trying out the BR Evo9 20g, however, I would like to hear from the White Rabbit & TME guys....

Obviously spool is critical, but a nice beefy power curve all the way up top would be nice to have aswell.

Maybe I should stay with stock turbo? Focus more on tuning? Get ported manifold etc? ...... please chime in...

I only care about opinions from guys that actually track (road course, not drag strip) their cars on a regular basis, so please spare me the 'it feels great on the street' or the 'look at my e.t.' comments....

 

I would say to focus on your tune. With a well tuned cam'ed car, and a well set up suspension, you should be able to take out pretty much everyone on the track. I know that at all of the norcal track days, Leif and myself are generally two of the fastest in our class, and we aren't the world's greatest drivers. If you are planning on doing a bunch of time attacks, I would suggest doing a turbo upgrade.

 

Having run my 300 wheel hp Evo 8 on several "horsepower" tracks (Mosport, the Glen, etc.) I can honestly say that I've never really felt the need for more power. A good tune and stable 20 lbs of boost all the way to redline has been more than enough for me.

Short of a well-driven GT3 or Z06, there isn't a heck of a lot that can keep up with me. Any faster, and I'd be running all by myself...and what's the fun in that?

Emre

 

I just had this conversation with a friend, if money isn't a factor - and you don't want alot of lag the 20G-9 is a sweet way to go. The TME and White Rabbit are within the same price +/- 200 or so and it SEEMS like the 20G is the best "stock based option.

Right now your car is making the most power it can at a reasonable level of parts/money. From here you really have 2 choices:

1. Big power, more lag, and looking to raise your powerband up top and keep the revs high. Most likely with a GT35R. This means it's time for an AEM or some other real management. So it will require some serious tuning. Not to mention some other hefty upgrades depending on how much power you really want. To get full use of the turbo you should build the head to handle a 8000 RPM rev limit so you have a usable powerband.

But the sky is the limit if you can handle the need to stay high in the powerband/revs. Go ahead and make 500 whp if you feel like it.

2. 20G-9. This is where you still end up spending a fair amount of money to really get airflow to the max on a "stock" sized turbo. You need the turbo, a new lower intercooler pipe, injectors, and probably should port the manifold, O2 housing etc. Then you decide on running it off a re-tune/flash or going the AEM route.

All said it's a fair amount of money and probably 50-60 hp more than what you're at now. I would bet that your car makes around 275-285 whp on a mustang dyno based on your mods and boost level. If you went with the fully supported 20G-9 and ran a conservitive road race tune and 24 psi I would guess you would make around 330-340 whp. BUT you would maintain tons of torque at low RPM's and have great spool up, which is nice out of the corners.

Having been a huge fan of all your video posts I think it's safe to say you will spend most of your time at Spring Mountain which seems to be a fairly twisty course. Although it has the big expansion it doesn't look like a "power" track. Correct me if I'm wrong though. That said I would go the 20G route and maintain the speed coming out of some of those tight corners.

 

Dustin@Vishnu - well, not exactly 'time attacks' but I like to compare lap times and improve on them. Usually I am the fastest car at any given track day at SMMP.

Emre - I knew you would say that
There is always traffic, and always those who dont want to point you by. Its almost getting to the point when I get really excited if there is no-one infornt of me and I can focus more on the faster line.

jid2 - thx for your thoughts...
Option 1 - Been there done that... old car vid...

Option 2 - yes... I am thinking more torque out of the corners and there are 2 places on SMMP where top end could help. I will most likely go with AEM later.

and you are right... I barely ever can go out of town or on a 2 day trip.. got a 2 year old and another in the oven.. so no fun weekends at Laguna, that can wait

n

 

My mods work great, I did an HPDE at Putnam park, and will be doing LOTS more road courses this year. will work on the "tune" and more suspension parts, control arms, etc...

 

I don't know how things run on the "left coast." Around here, HPDE's remain pretty non-competitive and low-key, particularly events run by the BMW CCA. With the exception of the FOC and certain chapters of the PCA, no one seems to have a problem giving point-bys to lowly Japanese sedans.

I prefer running in traffic. It's just more fun when you have several drivers to dice with. With the Evo (especially a modded one) there are just too few people to dice with. That's why I've been running my old E30 more and more lately. I get bored when I'm out front by myself.

Emre

 

I dont know if its competitiveness, stubbornes, lack of experience, or just plain ignorance.

I usually give someone 2 turns to point me by, after that I just pass them however it works.

I have no problems pointing someone by, in my 240sx I had to do plenty of point-by's and that helped me as a driver. Now I look for upcoming cars, if I spot them I lift, point and on they go.

My point though was that we usually have so much traffic, that even if you are above average speed you go through traffic all the time cause it cycles. But I agree with you, there is nothing more fun than to find someone who matches your speed and play tag for a couple of laps.

I've hit the power bug though... no one can stop me.. muhahaha!!!

n

 

nils,

if you need a local tuner in vegas, check out leading edge performance. garth weaver is the owner and factor-x is working out of there too. l

ed

 

Why not copy people who have been successful racing the Evos, like RRE? I'm not sure what his setup is but it has to be high on both the power and reliability scales.

 

ed - thx.. yeah, I know about Garth via the Supra world & and Dana (VWR).

evotino - to copy RRE I would need an open check book, not possible.


n

 

btw - Ed, you coming out this weekend to SMMP?

n

 

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered the BR Evo9 - 20g.... as soon as I get it mounted and running good I will post my results along with dyno graphs & lap time comparisons.

n

 

Nils,

I believe it all depends on how radical you want to go with power. I have the AMS 3071 R kit on my car, 264 HKS cams for more mid range and adjustable cam gears to lower the power band to the middle a touch. Very wide flat power band, but not a dyno queen. It is monsterous! Boost comes on about 300-400 RPMs higher than stock, but takes less time to reach full boost...(ball bearing) than the stocker. AEM controlling fuel and boost works great, and there are no shortage of good tuners on the west coast like on Emre and I's neck of the woods. No one will ever touch you on the track with your suspension set up.

Chris

 

Chris... true, we are spoiled overe here with good tuners & tracks etc....

What cam gears did you go with?

n