STU on a budget
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STU on a budget
I'm thinking about switching to STU this year from AS for autox, but want to do it on a tight budget. So I'm evaluating the car mods that will have the best bang for the buck. This means I'll be on the stock rims/tires and struts.
I'm thinking that front camber plates and an adjustable rear bar are a must. Will probably do a mild spring upgrade, with the Espelir ACDs or a custom Ground-Control set with less than an inch drop and about 30% stiffer than stock (don't want to trash the stock struts).
Rear strut bar is a possibility since it's relatively inexpensive, even if it won't do much.
I'm pretty much ignoring power mods, assuming that there isn't anything that I can do cheap and legal that would be net any significant difference.
Anything else that I should be looking at? I'm not aiming to be Nationally competitive, just looking to increase the fun factor, while I work on the biggest performance mod - the driver.
George
I'm thinking that front camber plates and an adjustable rear bar are a must. Will probably do a mild spring upgrade, with the Espelir ACDs or a custom Ground-Control set with less than an inch drop and about 30% stiffer than stock (don't want to trash the stock struts).
Rear strut bar is a possibility since it's relatively inexpensive, even if it won't do much.
I'm pretty much ignoring power mods, assuming that there isn't anything that I can do cheap and legal that would be net any significant difference.
Anything else that I should be looking at? I'm not aiming to be Nationally competitive, just looking to increase the fun factor, while I work on the biggest performance mod - the driver.
George
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agreed - a harness is an excellent bang for the buck mod. A cheaper alternative is a CG-LOCK and chest strap which is what I used before I got the harness.
Anything else on the high value/low cost list for STU?
Anything else on the high value/low cost list for STU?
High value? remember cost is relative... I would recommend coilovers, don't be stingy. They may be the only mod you buy for next season, but it will be the one area where you will see the biggest improvement (outside of tightening the nut behind the wheel)
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Understood - high caliber coilovers will give the best overall solution. However, I'm not ready to take that financial plunge. The way I see it, the EVO suspension is already very good.
There are three minor issues that I would like to address...
1> front inside wheel spin on corner exit
2> extreme inside rear lift
3> improve front contact patch utilization (and tire wear) with more camber
I'm assuming that by running on on the stock tires as compared to the current VictoRacers, I'll be generating less cornering force and helping with the first two by default.
The best way to address these without compromise would be a full coilover setup with camber plates. The compromise with the low cost approach is less adjustability, and possibly mismatching the springs with the stock struts. I would love to hear some input on the ability of the stock struts to handle a 30% increase in spring rate with minor (< 1 inch) in travel. I came up with the 30% as a reasonable number because the MR has 30% softer shock valving on the same springs.
So ultimately I was guessing at the payback for payout something like this... Pay $2000 for a full coilover setup and save 1 second on a 60 second course - $200/tenth. Or $700 for 1/2 second - $140/tenth. I don't know if those numbers are reasonable since I'm just guessing.
The bottom line, is at my level of competition and ability, I can justify $700 to save a little time and make the car more fun to drive - but I'm not sure that I can justify $1500-$2000 (roughly twice as much), for only a marginal additional gain.
If the springs, camber plates and rear bar will result in almost no gain, that would be helpful to know - otherwise, I'll assume that I'm on the right track for now.
Thanks
George
Another thought - is there much of a market for reselling stock EVO suspension parts? Perhaps that could offset the cost upgrade to the coilovers...
There are three minor issues that I would like to address...
1> front inside wheel spin on corner exit
2> extreme inside rear lift
3> improve front contact patch utilization (and tire wear) with more camber
I'm assuming that by running on on the stock tires as compared to the current VictoRacers, I'll be generating less cornering force and helping with the first two by default.
The best way to address these without compromise would be a full coilover setup with camber plates. The compromise with the low cost approach is less adjustability, and possibly mismatching the springs with the stock struts. I would love to hear some input on the ability of the stock struts to handle a 30% increase in spring rate with minor (< 1 inch) in travel. I came up with the 30% as a reasonable number because the MR has 30% softer shock valving on the same springs.
So ultimately I was guessing at the payback for payout something like this... Pay $2000 for a full coilover setup and save 1 second on a 60 second course - $200/tenth. Or $700 for 1/2 second - $140/tenth. I don't know if those numbers are reasonable since I'm just guessing.
The bottom line, is at my level of competition and ability, I can justify $700 to save a little time and make the car more fun to drive - but I'm not sure that I can justify $1500-$2000 (roughly twice as much), for only a marginal additional gain.
If the springs, camber plates and rear bar will result in almost no gain, that would be helpful to know - otherwise, I'll assume that I'm on the right track for now.
Thanks
George
Another thought - is there much of a market for reselling stock EVO suspension parts? Perhaps that could offset the cost upgrade to the coilovers...
A few comments...
Running on street tires will reduce the rear inside lift but not eliminate it:
Sorry for the fuzzy photo, but that's on the A046 tires, and the inside rear tire is around an inch off the ground.
Running on street tires might actually increase the tendency to spin the inside front tire. Although the inside front will be more loaded, it will also have a lower coefficient of friction. The torque required to break traction is (as a first order approximation) a function of the load multiplied by the friction coefficient, so it could go either way, possibly depending on the corner and/or the driving style.
Of your proposed mods, I think that camber plates (or any method of getting more front camber) are your big win. The adjustable rear bar might be worthwhile -- depends to some degree on how easy it is to adjust. It's worth goes up if it can reasonably be adjusted between autoX runs. Note that a bigger rear bar is going to make the rear inside wheel lift worse than stock. Consider carefully what you expect from a rear bar.
I would hesitate to guess what new springs alone will do for you -- I've heard too many stories of Evos which handle worse after a spring replacement. On the other hand, if you're using the stock struts and spring perches, there are really only two ways to lower the car -- shorter springs or smaller diameter tires. And lowering the car is a big gain as long as it doesn't compromise other aspects of the car's handling.
As for selling stock Evo suspension parts -- even if you could, you might consider keeping them. If you run a full competition coilover setup, you can expect to have periodic rebuilds of the dampers. And if the car is street driven, you'll need a suspension to ride on.
Running on street tires will reduce the rear inside lift but not eliminate it:
Sorry for the fuzzy photo, but that's on the A046 tires, and the inside rear tire is around an inch off the ground.
Running on street tires might actually increase the tendency to spin the inside front tire. Although the inside front will be more loaded, it will also have a lower coefficient of friction. The torque required to break traction is (as a first order approximation) a function of the load multiplied by the friction coefficient, so it could go either way, possibly depending on the corner and/or the driving style.
Of your proposed mods, I think that camber plates (or any method of getting more front camber) are your big win. The adjustable rear bar might be worthwhile -- depends to some degree on how easy it is to adjust. It's worth goes up if it can reasonably be adjusted between autoX runs. Note that a bigger rear bar is going to make the rear inside wheel lift worse than stock. Consider carefully what you expect from a rear bar.
I would hesitate to guess what new springs alone will do for you -- I've heard too many stories of Evos which handle worse after a spring replacement. On the other hand, if you're using the stock struts and spring perches, there are really only two ways to lower the car -- shorter springs or smaller diameter tires. And lowering the car is a big gain as long as it doesn't compromise other aspects of the car's handling.
As for selling stock Evo suspension parts -- even if you could, you might consider keeping them. If you run a full competition coilover setup, you can expect to have periodic rebuilds of the dampers. And if the car is street driven, you'll need a suspension to ride on.