Hi all,



I am getting into the CNY SCCA solo events and I got a chance to compete in 2 events at the end of the season last year. I noticed a huge problem with the Evo right off the bat. That problem is I cannot stay in 2nd gear because after some turns I have absolutely no power whatsoever. so in some turns I have to shift into 1st. I know this dramatically slows me down but so does having now power in 2nd gear.



What can I do? Please help.



Matt

 

There's no reason why shifting into 1st should "dramatically slow you down." I'm assuming the problem is that you can't shift into 1st gear soon enough since your road speed it too high. So you're stuck waiting for the car to slow down enough that you can get the car into gear.

This is one of those very few situations in performance driving when you'll actually need to use a "double clutch" downshift! It's similar to a regular heel-and-toe downshift, but you break it into two parts. You brake, clutch in, pull the shifter into neutral, then let the clutch back up. You now clutch in again, blip the throttle, push the lever into first, release the clutch, then transition back onto the gas.

The double-clutch downshift will let you get into 1st gear at a much higher road speed, so you'll be right into powerband of 1st gear. You should have no problem

Emre

 

If I do this my clutch would be toast after 1 season maybe less. It will burn hard with that much wear.

Would smaller wheels work? How small of wheels can fit on the Evo with the brimbos.

Thanks Matt

 

I had the same problem when I started autoxin the Evo.

Two things, first, you may be coming into the corner too fast, overshooting the ideal apex and causing you to brake more to get back into the proper line ("slow in fast out", that’s were you'll make time). If you cant get out of the corner under heavy throttle you'll loose time, it take patience but brake before you get into the corner.

Second thing is the turbo lag, you have to anticipate when it comes on and actually floor it before you would in a N/A car. It took me quite a while to get use to having it floored earlier than I would in my carbureted car.

I could be wrong on the first one, the second one was the hardest for me to get use to.

Unless your courses are very tight, you shouldn’t ever have to get into 1st

When you get more comfortable, ask someone to show you how to left foot brake, that way you can keep the throttle open a little making the lag a little less.

Good luck this year!
If you have any more questions, feel free to ask!

P.S. Don’t launch hard at the start, its only good for a couple tenths (maybe), but not worth the clutch replacement at the end of the year.

 

Ok I kinda see what you are saying with the breaking harder going into the turn so you can get your foot on the gas before going through the turn. But that is not how the Miata guys do it. They break right before the turn then slam the gas on out of the turn. So are you saying break way before the turn and hit the gas going into it? If so I could see how the power in 2nd gear may start kicking in after the turn but still this is not really how it is supposed to be done. Yes the courses these guys set up are extremely tight. The top speed might be 45 at best and when top speed for 1st gear is 38 for the Evo I think this constitutes a big problem.

Matt

 

You can't do it like the Miata guys do it (and get the same results) because you are not driving a Miata. The way it's "supposed to be done" is to get around the course the fastest. If your car suffers from turbo lag, then you have to make adjustments to compensate. Quit trying to compare apples to oranges and take the fastest line YOU can take in YOUR car. Get on the gas early to compensate for the lag.

Cabo

 

Don’t accelerate into the corner, but brake hard before the corner (before you start turning hard), get the car turning properly to where you need to go and start hittin the gas just before the apex of the turn.

Sounds like the Miatas are accelerating at the apex, and since most likely the Miatas don’t have a turbo (correct me if I'm wrong) anytime they touch the throttle their car will accelerate on demand, where as we have to wait for the turbo to kick in.

Basically you just have to get on the gas sooner than a N/A car.

Try riding in a turbo car and then in a N/A car, and you'll see the difference in where they get on the gas.

 

Well If I woud have waited for the MR I would not be worrying about this problem.

I can't hit the gas in 2nd going 10-15mph and expect the evo to do anything.

These guys make tracks so tight it is not even funny. They are fing go cart tracks.

Matt

 

sorry about that last grumpy post guys I am getting tired. Time for bed.

 

Matt,
Sometimes you just have to deal with the lag. Other times, if the course warrants it 1st gear can be used.

The above description of heel-toe downshifting is incorrect though...

It should be:
1) Brakes
2) Clutch IN
3) Shift to NEUTRAL
4) Clutch OUT
5) Blip Throttle
6) Clutch IN
7) Downshift
8) Clutch OUT
9) Off the Brakes and/or into the Throttle

For a proper downshift it is VERY important to blip the throttle while the clutch is engaged (OUT). If done properly this will match the Engine speed to the Vehicle/Transmission speed, which is what we are trying to accomplish. this technique was originated in cars without synchro's, so it was essential to match the tranny and engine speeds.

Personally, on the street I do a modified heel-toe that takes out a couple steps, it works like this:

1) Brakes
2) Clutch IN
3) Downshift & Blip Throttle
4) Clutch OUT
5) Off the Brakes and/or into the Throttle

This is better for the clutch than simply downshifting b/c there is less mismatch taken up by the clutch.

HTH.

John

 

Ya thats the way it should be done The other way takes too long when racing

 

I beleve you guys are correct but man I wish I had the MR's 6 speed and I would not have to be worring about this.

I will have to walk thier courses and get a feel for were I am going to need to shift. So that my 1st run of the day is not a complete waist.

Kinda stinks but I am going to have to resign to having to shift.

Thanks

Matt

 

That's false. Double clutching will not cause accelerated wear of your clutch. What wears the clutch is slipping it. You don't slip it at all with a double clutch douwnshift.

Emre

 

No offense, but what you've just described is NOT a "heel and toe" downshift. You've just described a double clutch downshift...which is exactly what I was saying in my original reply.


Where does the "modified" part come in? You've just described the classic heel and toe downshift!

Emre

 

What about upshift?