Converting Evo8 from Drag to Autox...need advise
dunno if i should mention this... but a more conservative tune is good, going wot a lot around the cones with minimal air flow for cooling components can get dangerous. that is if you're not running stock tune also after you swap everything back.
Hey nate! I'll reiterate the need for a front diff; my ~400hp open front diff DSM had a terrible time with inside front wheel spin; even with a nice set of adjustable Bilstein coilovers, swaybars, and 275/17 Kumhos on 17 x 10" wheels. Get the front diff!
Looking forward to seeing you at some of the PA/NJ autocrosses.
Looking forward to seeing you at some of the PA/NJ autocrosses.
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From: Blairstown, NJ
Originally Posted by lacartus
Hey nate! I'll reiterate the need for a front diff; my ~400hp open front diff DSM had a terrible time with inside front wheel spin; even with a nice set of adjustable Bilstein coilovers, swaybars, and 275/17 Kumhos on 17 x 10" wheels. Get the front diff!
Looking forward to seeing you at some of the PA/NJ autocrosses.
Looking forward to seeing you at some of the PA/NJ autocrosses.
Aftermarket quafe diff vs stock lsd front diff? Is there a significant price/performance differance?
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Originally Posted by trinydex
dunno if i should mention this... but a more conservative tune is good, going wot a lot around the cones with minimal air flow for cooling components can get dangerous. that is if you're not running stock tune also after you swap everything back.
for running the autox, Ill probobly dial the power down to 300whp or so to make the car easier to drive. Boost down in the 18-19psi range, and Ill back the timing down.
This should be pretty easy to tune, it's not like im roadracing for 20 minutes at a time and have to worry about the heat buildup.
Originally Posted by DSMotorsport
Ian: Haha, I was hoping to find you soon, since your the most autox experienced person I know face to face. Ill look into getting a front diff over winter, since I really need to rebuild the trans and put at least a new clutch disk in, if not replace the clutch all together.
Aftermarket quafe diff vs stock lsd front diff? Is there a significant price/performance differance?
Aftermarket quafe diff vs stock lsd front diff? Is there a significant price/performance differance?
Adding the quaife to my EVO transformed the handling just about as much as the coilovers.
As for the camber plate selection, I definately approve
, but you should decide which coilovers you want before buying the GC camber plates so that you can make sure they fit properly. If they don't have the proper fitment, GC will work with you to get the proper fitment, their customer service it top notch and I highly recommend them.Your biggest expense for autocross should be your suspension. Don't cut costs there...
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Originally Posted by kekek
DSMotorsport....welcome! You're gonna have fun at Etown. We have a good group of guys running ESP(BSP) and SM. Some of us will be out this saturday.
Jay
Jay
Im dreading putting the stock turbo back on, it's going to feel so "neutered".
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Just and update:Im hooked!
I had mucho fun at the last Etown autox, even though I had some major issues. (spun once, exhaust fell off, clutch died and I barely made it home to name a few). Watching the video, there was clutch smoke coming from under the car every time I went wot (even at 12psi boost).
The car is all fixed up with a new hg and clutch disk, and is much faster than I expected on pumpgas/stock turbo. EMS logs are saying 390whp/385ft-lb, it's very comparable to my local awd dynojet. overlaying previous runs at dragstrip, the car should run 117-118mph on pumpgas. Super happy to have the stock turbo back on the car, way more fun for backroad blasting than the 35R.
I can see now how much my driving and concentration will have to improve, as I made major major mistakes on every run, best of 57.2. I think Kevo ran something like 51.X seconds on the same day, he seems to be the front runner in SM at Etown.
So Im converted.
I had mucho fun at the last Etown autox, even though I had some major issues. (spun once, exhaust fell off, clutch died and I barely made it home to name a few). Watching the video, there was clutch smoke coming from under the car every time I went wot (even at 12psi boost).
The car is all fixed up with a new hg and clutch disk, and is much faster than I expected on pumpgas/stock turbo. EMS logs are saying 390whp/385ft-lb, it's very comparable to my local awd dynojet. overlaying previous runs at dragstrip, the car should run 117-118mph on pumpgas. Super happy to have the stock turbo back on the car, way more fun for backroad blasting than the 35R.
I can see now how much my driving and concentration will have to improve, as I made major major mistakes on every run, best of 57.2. I think Kevo ran something like 51.X seconds on the same day, he seems to be the front runner in SM at Etown.
So Im converted.
Last edited by DSMotorsport; Nov 22, 2005 at 07:33 PM.
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From: Edison New Jersey
Originally Posted by racerjon1
First, welcome to the "other side" After walking AMS through the teething stages of this process, I know that you are going to have fun learning the other tricks and pushing other limits.
Im also not sure if camber plates are of significant value with the stock struts.
Yes, they will be.. alignment is #2 on a list of "to do" things for roadrace/autocross, Tires being #1. Even if you stay on street tires, getting the right contact patch on the ground to increase cornering speed counts for a LOT.
From looking at the SCCA rulebook, my car should fit into SM the best.
Like has been said, you are going to pretty much be in SM.. which is fine.. since you are very new to this I don't recommend that you go to R compounds right away anyway.. get a set of the Falkens or some other good street tire and start learning. Once you are beating, or almost beating the other cars on "Streets" then go for the R compounds, you will be doing yourself a favor and learnign skills that you then take to any car you are going to run.
Some things that are on my mind that I could use advise with:
Tire size for hoosiers? Recomended wheel for said race tires?
Tire Size.. as big as you can fit of course. Now this might come with some cutting and rolling.. so I think 255 is probably a good # for a first set.. for a local or probably even divisional series this is going to be quite good.. unless you just happen to be in an area with some of the top guys. You will be able to tell if you are close with the 255s anyway.. and then you can make the decision to step up to a larger wheel/tire with the um.. persuasion techniques. A set of stock wheels works well for a first set of autocross wheels till you can do some research and find out what YOU are going to want/need to go faster.
Tien lowering springs on stock struts.
This to me is one of the things thats going to throw you off the most.. Though stock Evo struts are valved well, and overvalved for the stock spring rate, having a spring that overpowers the damper is less than ideal. going back to the "order" I mentioned above, I would put shocks/struts a bit before springs, and its better to have an aftermarket damper with stock springs than vice-versa.
What to do about it without buying new dampers.. its hard to say.. I would put the aftermarket springs on a shelf, or sell them for more autocross/entry $, and run with the stock ones. Once you want to go with a more customized setup, they are probably going to be the wrong spring rates anyway.
One thing to watch for... tuning for handling. On the drag strip you are WOT the whole time, On the autocross course, there is going to be a bit of modulation, especially with lots more HP.. when I autocrossed the AMS car in 475whp trim, my fastest runs were done never going over 2/3rd throttle.. (it would spin the r compounds even on the straights) So the tuning that you were doing is going to be replaced by looking at a lot of traces at part throttle.. I have probably driven 4-5 of my student's Evos around road courses where the power is so peaky, and on/off that it makes it near impossible to ballance the car on the edge, that type of delivery works great for drag racing, and not great for road racing.
Some basic advice.. dont "do" anything else to the car, your setup while good is less than optimum (almost always the case for those of us on budgets and without a team of engineers behind us) So when you think "let me get this part to go faster," stop, put the $ in the bank, and use it to go to an extra event. The extra events will make you faster than any mods will. Then next winter, come back armed with what you have learned and we can work on what else to do with the car.
Jon K
www.seat-time.com
www.racerjon.com
Im also not sure if camber plates are of significant value with the stock struts.
Yes, they will be.. alignment is #2 on a list of "to do" things for roadrace/autocross, Tires being #1. Even if you stay on street tires, getting the right contact patch on the ground to increase cornering speed counts for a LOT.
From looking at the SCCA rulebook, my car should fit into SM the best.
Like has been said, you are going to pretty much be in SM.. which is fine.. since you are very new to this I don't recommend that you go to R compounds right away anyway.. get a set of the Falkens or some other good street tire and start learning. Once you are beating, or almost beating the other cars on "Streets" then go for the R compounds, you will be doing yourself a favor and learnign skills that you then take to any car you are going to run.
Some things that are on my mind that I could use advise with:
Tire size for hoosiers? Recomended wheel for said race tires?
Tire Size.. as big as you can fit of course. Now this might come with some cutting and rolling.. so I think 255 is probably a good # for a first set.. for a local or probably even divisional series this is going to be quite good.. unless you just happen to be in an area with some of the top guys. You will be able to tell if you are close with the 255s anyway.. and then you can make the decision to step up to a larger wheel/tire with the um.. persuasion techniques. A set of stock wheels works well for a first set of autocross wheels till you can do some research and find out what YOU are going to want/need to go faster.
Tien lowering springs on stock struts.
This to me is one of the things thats going to throw you off the most.. Though stock Evo struts are valved well, and overvalved for the stock spring rate, having a spring that overpowers the damper is less than ideal. going back to the "order" I mentioned above, I would put shocks/struts a bit before springs, and its better to have an aftermarket damper with stock springs than vice-versa.
What to do about it without buying new dampers.. its hard to say.. I would put the aftermarket springs on a shelf, or sell them for more autocross/entry $, and run with the stock ones. Once you want to go with a more customized setup, they are probably going to be the wrong spring rates anyway.
One thing to watch for... tuning for handling. On the drag strip you are WOT the whole time, On the autocross course, there is going to be a bit of modulation, especially with lots more HP.. when I autocrossed the AMS car in 475whp trim, my fastest runs were done never going over 2/3rd throttle.. (it would spin the r compounds even on the straights) So the tuning that you were doing is going to be replaced by looking at a lot of traces at part throttle.. I have probably driven 4-5 of my student's Evos around road courses where the power is so peaky, and on/off that it makes it near impossible to ballance the car on the edge, that type of delivery works great for drag racing, and not great for road racing.
Some basic advice.. dont "do" anything else to the car, your setup while good is less than optimum (almost always the case for those of us on budgets and without a team of engineers behind us) So when you think "let me get this part to go faster," stop, put the $ in the bank, and use it to go to an extra event. The extra events will make you faster than any mods will. Then next winter, come back armed with what you have learned and we can work on what else to do with the car.
Jon K
www.seat-time.com
www.racerjon.com
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From: Edison New Jersey
Originally Posted by DSMotorsport
Just and update:Im hooked!
I had mucho fun at the last Etown autox, even though I had some major issues. (spun once, exhaust fell off, clutch died and I barely made it home to name a few). Watching the video, there was clutch smoke coming from under the car every time I went wot (even at 12psi boost).
The car is all fixed up with a new hg and clutch disk, and is much faster than I expected on pumpgas/stock turbo. EMS logs are saying 390whp/385ft-lb, it's very comparable to my local awd dynojet. overlaying previous runs at dragstrip, the car should run 117-118mph on pumpgas. Super happy to have the stock turbo back on the car, way more fun for backroad blasting than the 35R.
I can see now how much my driving and concentration will have to improve, as I made major major mistakes on every run, best of 57.2. I think Kevo ran something like 51.X seconds on the same day, he seems to be the front runner in SM at Etown.
So Im converted.
I had mucho fun at the last Etown autox, even though I had some major issues. (spun once, exhaust fell off, clutch died and I barely made it home to name a few). Watching the video, there was clutch smoke coming from under the car every time I went wot (even at 12psi boost).
The car is all fixed up with a new hg and clutch disk, and is much faster than I expected on pumpgas/stock turbo. EMS logs are saying 390whp/385ft-lb, it's very comparable to my local awd dynojet. overlaying previous runs at dragstrip, the car should run 117-118mph on pumpgas. Super happy to have the stock turbo back on the car, way more fun for backroad blasting than the 35R.
I can see now how much my driving and concentration will have to improve, as I made major major mistakes on every run, best of 57.2. I think Kevo ran something like 51.X seconds on the same day, he seems to be the front runner in SM at Etown.
So Im converted.
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Originally Posted by Maron
Hey it was nice meeting you at E-town. I drove your car last I think and I'm glad that you took care of the clutch. I was really impress with the falkens rt 615s and I think that you should continue to run on them until you get some serious seat time. They feel almost as grippy as a set of brand new advan 046.
Dude, between the smoked clutch, no boost, wrong tune, my car was in shambles. The tires were probobly the best thing going for it that day.
Also had one camber bolt in + position and one in - position (fixed now).Im up in the air about tires. I have half the guys telling be to buy the wides/stickiest tires I can get and that tires are the #1 thing to do on the car besides driving better. Then I have some guys who say to run on street tires.
These falkens will not last untill the spring with any usable tread with the mileage I have been putting on the car lately. I can't see being able to keep a set of these $650 falken RT 615's on the car for more than 2 months if I autox on them eonce very weekend. I think it would make more sense to buy a set of tires specificly for autox and keep them "somewhat fresh" and have one set for everyday driving.
Also, the cost of wheels/tires doesn't have an effect on the amount of seat time I can afford. Looking at the situation in this perspective: I will be either wearing out my street tires or dedicated autox tires at the same rate. I can either replace my street tires twice during the summer, or buy a set of dedicated autox tires to wear out during the same time span. Either way works out the same cost other than the second set of wheels.
Last edited by DSMotorsport; Nov 24, 2005 at 08:42 PM.
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From: Blairstown, NJ
Originally Posted by trinydex
just put your race wheels on race days and drive there on 'em (or setup so you may). trailoring a buncha wheels is never fun.
I don't mind work/packing at the track. Im used to trailoring a 10 sec drag dsm in an enclosed trailer every weekend. It's not unheard of to see me in the pits swapping a trans or rear at the track, swapping cams, fixing timingbelt. Swapping 4 wheels at the track is cake.
oooh yeah 1.5 hours is far for me it's less than 35 minutes. and at 1.5 hours you'll have spares basicalyl just in case, hate to have to flat bed or something for such a long/short distance as it is both.
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