Stock the springs are stiffer in the back...because of the different lever arm the "effective" wheel rate is almost = however...

 

Any idea what the stock wheel rate is?

 

right at 265lbs iirc....

 

If that's the reason, shouldn't people running big fat rear swaybars decrease their rear spring rate to even out the effective spring rate?

 

I understand what you're thinking, but swaybars will only change the roll rate. When thinking about it you'll have to note the difference between one spring compressing during bump versus both springs compressing during bump.

 

Robi has done many suspension setups with stock shocks. Check out Robispec.com.

 

Okay so this thread has been around for awhile but the answer still isn't clear.

One is is definate, I am not going to get aftermarket springs.

So back to the original question......

Stay OEM or go with a middle of the road coil over setup like Megan or Tein Flex?

 

I know Robi claims he hasn't had any problems running stock dampeners with aftermarket springs but there have been numberous reports of problems reported on other sub forums of EVOM. I do not know if these problem children are knuckle heads or not but I won't be doing aftermarket springs on higher mileage stock struts either.

I will more than likely be purchasing Megan Coilovers this season. They may cost more than just springs but in the end when you are done with them and go to sell you'll lose about the same amount of cash give or take a few bucks.

Oddly another reason for getting a coilover package is because I can swap the entire stock suspension back on the car in an hour. If I need to take a long road trip and do not want a painfully stiff ride, I can toss the stockers back on and make good use of my lifetime alignment from firestone. No matter what anyone tells you most coilovers are TOO stiff for 8hr+ road trips. Been there done that and its not fun.

Again the suspension guru's on this forum will rip on firestone and rip on cheap coilovers but there's something to be said for using the 80/20 rule. I've been to quite a few track days and even though I take the cost effective route I'm normally one of the quicker EVO's on track and I'm not even all that competative. I only do this crap for fun. I know my stock suspension is being overworked and coilovers will provide me with quicker lap times.

That being said if you are hard core and super serious then I dont recommend going with middle of the road parts.

 

Why are you so stubborn? We gave you a cheaper, much better solution; and you just tossed it out the window. Whatever. Keep you stock suspension.

 

I love my Megans, coupled w/ the larger rear sway and endlinks the car has a much more rear biased steering feel w/o the understeer from before. The body roll has been almost completely eliminated. I am not a pro racer and figured if these are basically the same as the Apex units they can't be too bad. I was on a Tein springs/stock struts before and these are much better IMHO. The 32 way adjustability is nice as you can run you car w/ the suspension really stiff, or barely stiffer than stock. I am very happy w/ my purchase and I'm sure if you go w/ them you'll be happy as well.

 

In all honesty there aren't that many people bragging up aftermarket springs.

This is especially true when you eliminate the posers that worry about pot holes and ride quality instead of lap times. Most of the spring reviews are from people that haven't ever attended an HPDE event.

In all honesty there have been multiple positive reviews of midrange coilovers from people that actually track thier cars.

A seasoned driver with big potato sacks will more than likely be faster on stiffer tuneable coilovers especially once the car is fully race prepped with wide sticky tires, eye bleeding braking ability, and aggressive alignment.

Add in the fact that numberous people have had problems running aftermarket springs and this becomes a no brainer.

 

People buy my basic package (lowering springs) for performance not looks (its nice that the ride with the Espelier GT IMPROVES too). They are all happy with their choice. They all are faster at the track with their choice (and many have progressed to the full coilover program) Even the "Basic" copycats (I don't set-up the car they use the parts and try to get the same thing with their alignment shop) report improvment in both ride and laptimes. To my knowedge, NO failures to date with the stock struts..or the MR either....and yes with the performance improvments and the off track incidents they have had that data point suprises even me...
ONE thing is clear. IF want to junk your ride go with cheap coilovers...you might be able to drive around the flaws on the track and the lower ride height certainly HELPs performance but your ride home reminds you where you chose to economise (your lower back) the KW street setup rides BETTER than stock and delivers BETTER performance at the track...so you don't have to give up one to get the other (unless you buy cheap colovers). Oh the first place "Modified" car at the Redline Beaverrun time atack was a GT Lowering Spring Robispec Basic suspension...beat 3 coilover cars....same day same track...

 

do NOT deal. if you're eyeing Megan coilovers just do it.

Don't let anyone tell you the stock setup is better than the megan coilovers. It's simply not true.

How do I know? I did it myself with pretty much the same car as you have. I took it out on a track day at NHIS and left -everyone- at all corners... and that was the first day with that setup!

yes, I bought them from Zeus, if he still has them buy'em, my order went out the same day I paid and it was packaged very well.

 

I'm glad you like the sway bar / spring solution but I'd be carefull before trying to convince everyone they are better than budget coilovers. Unless you can install the springs yourself (most of us can't) it really isn't much more expensive to just buy 7-800 dollar coilovers considering install costs.
I think the advice of the seller of the product will always be a little tainted anyway.
To each their own. I do think that ultimately, the degree of adjustments made for the environment driven under makes for the best suspension. Springs alone offer no adjustments.

 

I know Robi knows his stuff and I understand he wants to positively promote his basic package but it would be interesting to see which would be more track worthy if he had tuned both a Megan coilover car and an Espiler GT car.

Personally I like the idea of buing a complete replacement for stock. Then when the time comes to sell your car you can return it to stock and sell your aftermarket parts at minimal loss.