I need help with my dream
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Ok, you've said this twice now. I hope there will not be a 3rd. If you have only ever driven on the street, then you haven't the slightest clue about driving...I mean not the SLIGHTEST clue. I don't know what you've done on the street to convince yourself that you're an amazing driver or a "pretty damn good street driver" (what does that mean?). Also, to understand the math, you have to actually have done it before. You haven't yet, and that's ok, because we all have to get started at some point in life.
2 years ago, I had never done anything besides drag racing, and I was really good at it, so I considered myself a good driver. However, once I did my first autocross (not even road racing yet), I realized how much I had NO CLUE about driving, especially when it came to the Evo. After doing some more autocrosses and getting good at it, I went to an HPDE with NASA. Once again, I was reminded (even more emphatically) how little of a clue I had about REAL driving. Once you've done your first 20-min session on a road course, you'll look in your rearview mirror and laugh at yourself for being a douchebag (generally speaking, not calling you a douchebag), because you'll suddenly realize how nothing you've EVER DONE on the street could ever in ANY WAY compare to what you've just experienced. Just trust me on this. You may end up being a world class driver, but do not go around saying you think you're an amazing driver when you haven't stepped foot on a track before. The most dangerous thing behind the steering wheel is someone who thinks they're awesome despite having _0_ experience.
All that being said, if you don't (and won't) have the funds to hit the track for some seat time, then get involved with a crew, or even volunteer at a local NASA or SCCA event as a corner worker. Do something just to get in the thick of things so that you can meet people and learn. Until you can get on the track yourself, though, it's going to be tough.
2 years ago, I had never done anything besides drag racing, and I was really good at it, so I considered myself a good driver. However, once I did my first autocross (not even road racing yet), I realized how much I had NO CLUE about driving, especially when it came to the Evo. After doing some more autocrosses and getting good at it, I went to an HPDE with NASA. Once again, I was reminded (even more emphatically) how little of a clue I had about REAL driving. Once you've done your first 20-min session on a road course, you'll look in your rearview mirror and laugh at yourself for being a douchebag (generally speaking, not calling you a douchebag), because you'll suddenly realize how nothing you've EVER DONE on the street could ever in ANY WAY compare to what you've just experienced. Just trust me on this. You may end up being a world class driver, but do not go around saying you think you're an amazing driver when you haven't stepped foot on a track before. The most dangerous thing behind the steering wheel is someone who thinks they're awesome despite having _0_ experience.
All that being said, if you don't (and won't) have the funds to hit the track for some seat time, then get involved with a crew, or even volunteer at a local NASA or SCCA event as a corner worker. Do something just to get in the thick of things so that you can meet people and learn. Until you can get on the track yourself, though, it's going to be tough.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 769
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From: South Carolina
Warning: Some of the things I am about to say are not going to seem encouraging. It isn't ment to be that way, only to prepare you for the parts of this game that are frustrating. I do not mean this to discourage you - only to help you see what big steps lay ahead of you, by knowing what are going to be the sticking points, you will not be so surprised.
It is, and it's good to realize this. One thing I will ask first is, do you just want to go race cars, or do you want to be a pro. Both answers are easy in short form, one is harder in long form.
The short form: Earn $, win a lottery, pay to drive racecars.
The longer form:
First there are a couple of things I tell people when they ask me this same question:
1) Get a good job. (Doctor, lawyer, lobbiest work the best. )
2) Do it because you love it, and are having fun no matter where you are or how high a level you reach. (I am as happy slaloming cones in a parking lot as I am at 190mph in an LMP or 160mph in the AMS Evo at Mid-Ohio - If I never go any higher I will be happy as long as I am driving, it makes things easier, and more importantly, more fun.)
It's ok to not be able to put it in words why you like driving, it is one hell of an experience, and I don't really think they make the right words for it.
But... Get on a track, in some karts, or something before putting all your eggs in one driving goal basket. I know more than a few people who were/are HUGE racing fans, decided it would be an awesome idea to do it themselves, went to drivers school - and freaked out. I am not saying you will, but understand that the same things that make it unexplainably awesome also make it terrifying to some.
I have had four students who looked at me and said "I am not comfortable, I do not want to get back in the car," and honestly those guys are some of the people I respect the most as it takes a lot of guts to do that. The guys that push when they are not comfortable are the ones that drive me crazy - and cause the most danger.
Get in someway cheap. Autocrossing, track days, rent a kart (a real kart) to get your feet wet. Find out if you like swimming before jumping into the deep end of a pool filled with sharks.
Then in all realistic goals, forget it.
If you want to drive racecars, or drive cars in competition, you are going to pay, and the money is going to come out of your own pockets unless your parents/girlfriend are really really nice. Cash works best. I suppose if you have a good friend he might let you drive an autocross and pay your entry as a birthday present, but other than that.. I would pretty much say no way.
At the lowest levels it costs $30 an event to do motorsports (Autocrossing where you already own the car) At the highest levels in the US you can drive an IndyCar for $150,000 an event.
For amateur racing, there are probably 10 guys in this country that don't pay to drive.. They probably paid to drive for 20 years before getting to that point. Understand that if you are going racing, you're paying for it.
This will help - not as much as being a lawyer/doctor/lobbiest - but it will help in that you can work on your own stuff. This saves a bunch of money, as if you do the work yourself race weekends can cost as little as $700, and if somone else is working on your car you can pretty much start the bidding at $2500 per weekend.
You might even be able to go help out with a racer or team, and trade lots of hard work for a chance to drive. (Notice it's not free - it's bartering)
This is where things can seem simple, but the devil is in the details. I will give the simple outline.
***For every step here make a decision to race/compete with what you can afford, not what you want. Motorsport is filled with rules, classes and regulations, and you need to know where you are going before you can plan anything.
Whatever series/competition you chose, the first thing you should get for you and your car is a rulebook. Not tires, not an intake, not springs, not shocks, not wheels - a rulebook.
If it makes your car go faster, stop quicker or corner harder, very often it also means going up a class, a class you might not be able to afford to be competitive in. If you don't care about being competitive - fine. If you do care about being competitive, then you should be more familar with the rulebook then you were of that Victoria's Secret Catalog you hid under your mattress when you were 14.
Trendy things like big brakes usually don't help, they migh move you up a class, and the $ could have been better spent on more events. ***
1) Start out autocrossing.
You can do this while you are in school, for $30 entry + a little extra wear on tires and fuel - figure about $50 per event. Events are all over the place, there is very little risk of crash damage to your car, and you don't need all of the safety equipment that sucks down $, most clubs even have helmets you can borrow. (Notice I didn't mention $ to modify the car - you don't need it, and you probably shouldn't spend it for a while at least, I tell people "if you have to ask me what to do to your car without saying very specifically why, you don't have enough experience to do it yet.)
2) Move up to High Performance Drivers Education (HPDE)
While autocrossing, start doing a few Drivers Education/Track day events. NASA and smaller groups/clubs do a great job at this. It is a great way to learn about driving faster and on a track without "jumping in with the sharks" that I mentioned above.
If you are planning on going roadracing/wheel to wheel at this point, it is the time to start saving up for a tow vehicle and trailer. When/if you get to that point, you are going to want to tow to the track, carry spares, etc..
***When you put a car on a racetrack - be ready to throw it away. You should assume that if it gets crashed - it's gone. Insurance probably isn't going to cover it, and at high speed there is a good chance that it isn't coming back.***
3) Club racing.
If your car is expensive to maintain, hard to find parts for, not competitive (and you want to be) or it hasn't been slowly turned into a racecar over time - It's time to sell it. Buy a racecar somone built. (When I say turned into a racecar, I mean full cage, net, belts, seat, master-switch and everything else in the rules)
If you go to buy a racecar, remember buying it is not the expensive part, maintaining it is. An Evo is probably not the place to start. Civics, Miatas, first gen RX-7s are.
Some other notes:
Consider karts: You can autocross them, they have open track days at kart tracks with them, they have major racing series with them. Do not get into the misguided feeling that karts are not "real racecars" I have raced around Daytona in a Kart, I have been 120mph in a kart, some of them do 0-60 in under 3 seconds. They pull 4.5 - 5g in corners. They are some of the least expensive racing vehicles to maintain and run. (Notice I didn't use the word cheap) For $10k you could have a nice kart, spares, and a truck to carry it around with.
Just think you could sell an Evo and buy the setup and probably go kart racing for 10 years with the $.
Help out: If you can't drive, there are plenty of ways to be involved in motorsports. You can crew for teams and drivers, you can learn and be involved in timing and scoring, safety, tech and officiating. These are great ways to be around if you can't afford to drive, or don't feel you are cut out for driving. It also helps you learn the ins-and-outs before you actually get to drive.
Before you go club racing, please go crew for a club racer, you will see what a weekend actually takes, learn about procedure, and make a friend.
Listen to those more experienced: Racers are a good group, we are friendly, we help each other out. Experience is a fancy word for "made those mistakes." When we say things like "don't put that GT35 on your car," or "you don't know about driving yet," it's because we have been there, we have been humiliated, beaten, and broke - both in financial and mechanical terms.
We like making friends and we love to see new blood in the sport. Our advice might not fit with what you expect to hear, but it's what you need to hear.
Finally.. have fun. There is too much effort and money put into going fast and racing to not have fun.
It is, and it's good to realize this. One thing I will ask first is, do you just want to go race cars, or do you want to be a pro. Both answers are easy in short form, one is harder in long form.
The short form: Earn $, win a lottery, pay to drive racecars.
The longer form:
First there are a couple of things I tell people when they ask me this same question:
1) Get a good job. (Doctor, lawyer, lobbiest work the best. )
2) Do it because you love it, and are having fun no matter where you are or how high a level you reach. (I am as happy slaloming cones in a parking lot as I am at 190mph in an LMP or 160mph in the AMS Evo at Mid-Ohio - If I never go any higher I will be happy as long as I am driving, it makes things easier, and more importantly, more fun.)
But... Get on a track, in some karts, or something before putting all your eggs in one driving goal basket. I know more than a few people who were/are HUGE racing fans, decided it would be an awesome idea to do it themselves, went to drivers school - and freaked out. I am not saying you will, but understand that the same things that make it unexplainably awesome also make it terrifying to some.
I have had four students who looked at me and said "I am not comfortable, I do not want to get back in the car," and honestly those guys are some of the people I respect the most as it takes a lot of guts to do that. The guys that push when they are not comfortable are the ones that drive me crazy - and cause the most danger.
Get in someway cheap. Autocrossing, track days, rent a kart (a real kart) to get your feet wet. Find out if you like swimming before jumping into the deep end of a pool filled with sharks.
Then in all realistic goals, forget it.
If you want to drive racecars, or drive cars in competition, you are going to pay, and the money is going to come out of your own pockets unless your parents/girlfriend are really really nice. Cash works best. I suppose if you have a good friend he might let you drive an autocross and pay your entry as a birthday present, but other than that.. I would pretty much say no way.
At the lowest levels it costs $30 an event to do motorsports (Autocrossing where you already own the car) At the highest levels in the US you can drive an IndyCar for $150,000 an event.
For amateur racing, there are probably 10 guys in this country that don't pay to drive.. They probably paid to drive for 20 years before getting to that point. Understand that if you are going racing, you're paying for it.
You might even be able to go help out with a racer or team, and trade lots of hard work for a chance to drive. (Notice it's not free - it's bartering)
This is where things can seem simple, but the devil is in the details. I will give the simple outline.
***For every step here make a decision to race/compete with what you can afford, not what you want. Motorsport is filled with rules, classes and regulations, and you need to know where you are going before you can plan anything.
Whatever series/competition you chose, the first thing you should get for you and your car is a rulebook. Not tires, not an intake, not springs, not shocks, not wheels - a rulebook.
If it makes your car go faster, stop quicker or corner harder, very often it also means going up a class, a class you might not be able to afford to be competitive in. If you don't care about being competitive - fine. If you do care about being competitive, then you should be more familar with the rulebook then you were of that Victoria's Secret Catalog you hid under your mattress when you were 14.
Trendy things like big brakes usually don't help, they migh move you up a class, and the $ could have been better spent on more events. ***
1) Start out autocrossing.
You can do this while you are in school, for $30 entry + a little extra wear on tires and fuel - figure about $50 per event. Events are all over the place, there is very little risk of crash damage to your car, and you don't need all of the safety equipment that sucks down $, most clubs even have helmets you can borrow. (Notice I didn't mention $ to modify the car - you don't need it, and you probably shouldn't spend it for a while at least, I tell people "if you have to ask me what to do to your car without saying very specifically why, you don't have enough experience to do it yet.)
2) Move up to High Performance Drivers Education (HPDE)
While autocrossing, start doing a few Drivers Education/Track day events. NASA and smaller groups/clubs do a great job at this. It is a great way to learn about driving faster and on a track without "jumping in with the sharks" that I mentioned above.
If you are planning on going roadracing/wheel to wheel at this point, it is the time to start saving up for a tow vehicle and trailer. When/if you get to that point, you are going to want to tow to the track, carry spares, etc..
***When you put a car on a racetrack - be ready to throw it away. You should assume that if it gets crashed - it's gone. Insurance probably isn't going to cover it, and at high speed there is a good chance that it isn't coming back.***
3) Club racing.
If your car is expensive to maintain, hard to find parts for, not competitive (and you want to be) or it hasn't been slowly turned into a racecar over time - It's time to sell it. Buy a racecar somone built. (When I say turned into a racecar, I mean full cage, net, belts, seat, master-switch and everything else in the rules)
If you go to buy a racecar, remember buying it is not the expensive part, maintaining it is. An Evo is probably not the place to start. Civics, Miatas, first gen RX-7s are.
Some other notes:
Consider karts: You can autocross them, they have open track days at kart tracks with them, they have major racing series with them. Do not get into the misguided feeling that karts are not "real racecars" I have raced around Daytona in a Kart, I have been 120mph in a kart, some of them do 0-60 in under 3 seconds. They pull 4.5 - 5g in corners. They are some of the least expensive racing vehicles to maintain and run. (Notice I didn't use the word cheap) For $10k you could have a nice kart, spares, and a truck to carry it around with.
Just think you could sell an Evo and buy the setup and probably go kart racing for 10 years with the $.
Help out: If you can't drive, there are plenty of ways to be involved in motorsports. You can crew for teams and drivers, you can learn and be involved in timing and scoring, safety, tech and officiating. These are great ways to be around if you can't afford to drive, or don't feel you are cut out for driving. It also helps you learn the ins-and-outs before you actually get to drive.
Before you go club racing, please go crew for a club racer, you will see what a weekend actually takes, learn about procedure, and make a friend.
Listen to those more experienced: Racers are a good group, we are friendly, we help each other out. Experience is a fancy word for "made those mistakes." When we say things like "don't put that GT35 on your car," or "you don't know about driving yet," it's because we have been there, we have been humiliated, beaten, and broke - both in financial and mechanical terms.
We like making friends and we love to see new blood in the sport. Our advice might not fit with what you expect to hear, but it's what you need to hear.
Finally.. have fun. There is too much effort and money put into going fast and racing to not have fun.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Jon K's advice is very good, and I would like to add the following:
Road Racing (even at the HPDE level that I do, rather than wheel-to-wheel club racing) is addictive. It is an EXTREMELY expensive hobby, and very very few drivers ever actually make money in professional racing.
I live eat and breathe the local road courses and my modified EVO. If you have a regular g/f, you might want to think about how she will handle you spending all your money and free time at the track or preparing to go.
Road Racing (even at the HPDE level that I do, rather than wheel-to-wheel club racing) is addictive. It is an EXTREMELY expensive hobby, and very very few drivers ever actually make money in professional racing.
I live eat and breathe the local road courses and my modified EVO. If you have a regular g/f, you might want to think about how she will handle you spending all your money and free time at the track or preparing to go.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 769
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From: South Carolina
I figured if he comes back asking about pro racing, I can really scare him.
+1 on Richard's point that it gets addictive. I joke (maybe joke) that I should have taken up a less expensive and less destructive hobby - like smoking crack.
+1 on Richard's G/F advice. It takes a special girl to put up with/understand the addiction. If you have one that does/will great. If you don't - you need to meet a girl at an event around cars. At the club or bar or whatever isn't going to cut it.
The girl that says "oh that's awesome that you race cars" but isn't around racing doesn't understand what she is getting into. (No matter how cute she is and how hard she is batting big, beautiful eyes)
+1 on Richard's point that it gets addictive. I joke (maybe joke) that I should have taken up a less expensive and less destructive hobby - like smoking crack.
+1 on Richard's G/F advice. It takes a special girl to put up with/understand the addiction. If you have one that does/will great. If you don't - you need to meet a girl at an event around cars. At the club or bar or whatever isn't going to cut it.
The girl that says "oh that's awesome that you race cars" but isn't around racing doesn't understand what she is getting into. (No matter how cute she is and how hard she is batting big, beautiful eyes)
Great advice from Jon. Read, re-read, and re-re-read his post. Everyone has been giving good advice.
Autocrossing, and if you want a little wheel-to-wheel action, karting, are really good ways to get started. You will still be spending some money, but you'll get a quick taste of what it takes before you put both feet in.
Also, a little humility goes a long way in motorsports. The more you learn, and the more time you spend on the track, the more you realize that you don't know, nor are you as fast as you think you are.
Autocrossing, and if you want a little wheel-to-wheel action, karting, are really good ways to get started. You will still be spending some money, but you'll get a quick taste of what it takes before you put both feet in.
Also, a little humility goes a long way in motorsports. The more you learn, and the more time you spend on the track, the more you realize that you don't know, nor are you as fast as you think you are.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Fremont, CA
My biggest advice, STAY CHEAP! Dirt Cheap, the less money you spend on your car the more you can drive it per year.
EVO is a very expensive car compared to some, car is expensive, eats lots of fuel on the track, it's heavy so it eats up tires and brakes.
Like everyone says, listen to more "experienced" crowd.
If you can, I'd buy a used fully prepped car, like Spec Miata or Honda Challenge car, or some SCCA Showroom Stock car for under $10,000, buy a diesel truck and a trailer. Use the truck as your daily driver (hard if you live in the city) and tow the car to the events
.
And most of all, don't get discouraged. Racing is a skill, which can be learned, "the natural talent" only decreases time required to master the skill and thus cost.
Make your goals clear, don't get mixed up by people who are just trying to have fun and go fast without a goal to be a race car driver. Don't waste money on useless Horsepower mods, having 400HP in the EVO will not make you a better driver. Investing money into MORE track events and buying Data Logging system is a bigger plus!
Go to Skip Barber or equivalent racing school, learn the basics in a controlled environment.
Have Fun! Like everyone says.
EVO is a very expensive car compared to some, car is expensive, eats lots of fuel on the track, it's heavy so it eats up tires and brakes.
Like everyone says, listen to more "experienced" crowd.
If you can, I'd buy a used fully prepped car, like Spec Miata or Honda Challenge car, or some SCCA Showroom Stock car for under $10,000, buy a diesel truck and a trailer. Use the truck as your daily driver (hard if you live in the city) and tow the car to the events
. And most of all, don't get discouraged. Racing is a skill, which can be learned, "the natural talent" only decreases time required to master the skill and thus cost.
Make your goals clear, don't get mixed up by people who are just trying to have fun and go fast without a goal to be a race car driver. Don't waste money on useless Horsepower mods, having 400HP in the EVO will not make you a better driver. Investing money into MORE track events and buying Data Logging system is a bigger plus!
Go to Skip Barber or equivalent racing school, learn the basics in a controlled environment.
Have Fun! Like everyone says.
Jeez, I have the same dream as you except you are getting started 4 years before me.
Go to an SCCA Nationals race in your area and talk to people there, it wasn't until I raced with Bill Ziegler (SCCA National Evo driver) that I realized how damned slow I was. The learning curve is steep, painful, and expensive. Study hard, I make a decent living for someone my age and a full season of 40-some days (every event with every club in the area) and a few stupid crashes (oops) this past year did a number on my wallet. And I still haven't replaced my front lip! Hopefully you have people that support you, because very few people are going to understand and/or support you.
I'd also like to offer as an alternative to karts, Formula Vee is a really cheap way to get in to racing (wheel to wheel). A used FV with spares will cost you 3-4k and parts are dirt cheap. You will learn a whole lot about wrenching cars and become a hell of a good driver because those things accelerate slow as dirt, so there can be NO MISTAKES. The Evo covers for a LOT of mistakes and really isn't a great learning car. Stay away from the tin cans, you'll notice most of the F1 drivers started out in karts or Formula cars.
Yet despite this, a 60hp FV turns some pretty impressive lap times. I think the national level FV guys do about the same as a stock Evo with an "ok" driver at Limerock IIRC...
Go to an SCCA Nationals race in your area and talk to people there, it wasn't until I raced with Bill Ziegler (SCCA National Evo driver) that I realized how damned slow I was. The learning curve is steep, painful, and expensive. Study hard, I make a decent living for someone my age and a full season of 40-some days (every event with every club in the area) and a few stupid crashes (oops) this past year did a number on my wallet. And I still haven't replaced my front lip! Hopefully you have people that support you, because very few people are going to understand and/or support you.
I'd also like to offer as an alternative to karts, Formula Vee is a really cheap way to get in to racing (wheel to wheel). A used FV with spares will cost you 3-4k and parts are dirt cheap. You will learn a whole lot about wrenching cars and become a hell of a good driver because those things accelerate slow as dirt, so there can be NO MISTAKES
. The Evo covers for a LOT of mistakes and really isn't a great learning car. Stay away from the tin cans, you'll notice most of the F1 drivers started out in karts or Formula cars. Yet despite this, a 60hp FV turns some pretty impressive lap times. I think the national level FV guys do about the same as a stock Evo with an "ok" driver at Limerock IIRC...
Last edited by Tsurara; Jan 10, 2007 at 09:52 PM.
I can't really say enough about karts as a great starting point....outdoor karts that is. The indoor karts are really not very useful.
If you go to a karting school ($300-$500) with 17hp clutch karts, you'll find out very quickly if you have any real desire to drive a purpose built race car.
The basic principles of the traction circle, racing line, etc are best learned there...and it's so much fun.
Don't worry about karts being fast enough--by the time you get into a 125cc TAG, or better, a 125cc Shifter, well, they will scare the pi$$ out of you.
If you go to a karting school ($300-$500) with 17hp clutch karts, you'll find out very quickly if you have any real desire to drive a purpose built race car.
The basic principles of the traction circle, racing line, etc are best learned there...and it's so much fun.
Don't worry about karts being fast enough--by the time you get into a 125cc TAG, or better, a 125cc Shifter, well, they will scare the pi$$ out of you.
Also, if you want to find another good source of info about race driving and its development path, then go the bookstore and buy "Drive to Win" by Carol Smith. It will clear away any misguided presumptions about what to expect... and it will sound errily similar to all the posts above.
Also, if you want to find another good source of info about race driving and its development path, then go the bookstore and buy "Drive to Win" by Carol Smith. It will clear away any misguided presumptions about what to expect... and it will sound errily similar to all the posts above.
Also pick up "Tune to Win"
I want to race cars. Track racing. i love driving, i have no idea why but i do. I dont have the money to start on my own. Im about to go to UTI(universal technical institute) and eventually ill end with a BMW cert./ASE. I figured become a BMW tech might help me get into the racing game.
If you seriously want to get involved in racing, you don't necessarily have to be a driver.
The other thing would be to get into dirt track and other circle track racing. There's a race every weekend in most areas. Buy-in is cheap. And everyone has similar cars...which means it's all about the driver.
Meanwhile, pick up every book ever written by Carroll Smith. Basically all the " ... to Win" books. They'll give you a realistic idea of what you're in for.
Emre
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Joined: Oct 2004
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In Arizona, I think the group to get in contact with is http://www.proautosports.com/
They do club racing and HPDE, primarily at Firebird Int'l Raceway, which is near Phoenix and has 3 different tracks (as I understand it). Their events seem to be organized similar to NASA events with lots of things going on and lots of cars. The guy who runs it is Larry Pond. You could call or email him for more info.
They do club racing and HPDE, primarily at Firebird Int'l Raceway, which is near Phoenix and has 3 different tracks (as I understand it). Their events seem to be organized similar to NASA events with lots of things going on and lots of cars. The guy who runs it is Larry Pond. You could call or email him for more info.
thank you for your help guys, ill comment individually later. I flew myself out to arizona to check out the school,which is where i am right now. I've began to understand that Racing is more along the lines of a "hobbie" then a job/career. I understand that there is alot of money needed to persue this type of hobbie. Im gonna take it step by step. Im young,im smart, i know how to talk to people and i never burn bridges. Thanks for the help once again and when i have more time(quading in tucson is quite fun) ill re-read and re-re-read all again, thank you.
Yes, it's a "hobby." but it can become a career, especially if you become an engineer. Colorado St University has an entire mechanical engineering program based around building race cars, suspension theory, tuning, etc. These guys get a Master's degree while working on Formula SAE cars, learning about suspension geometries, engine dyno'ing turbo'd motorcycle engines, etc etc. These guys did my suspension tuning, installation, and setup, and when they graduate, they go work for big race teams.