What NOT to do while racing - Video
Alright, watched it again like 19 times. Definitely not slamming his brakes, stopping speed sure, because he was going slow already, but certainly not a SLAM. I've seen track prepped cars slam their brakes (I've slammed brakes in a track car too) and they definitely don't cost to a stop like that, there's smoking tires when track cars slam brakes. I still say he would've hit the other car whether it hit it's brakes or not since it was going so slow.
His knee lifts, sure, didn't notice that before, only felt like he wasn't slowing down much (also didn't SLAM his own brakes for sure). I didn't even watch his legs and hands the first time. Watching them again makes me notice his hands... Which do absolutly nothing to avoid the incident, and almost looks like he turns into the incident.
Also, if where the leading car was was really off-line for that track (looks on-line to me, but it's hard to tell in videos) why didn't the trailing car just take the pass on-line? Is that against the rules in that series? If not, then there's no excuse, especially not for not taking a little bit extra caution when passing someone who is known to be a hazard.
Yes, I agree the driver in front should be removed from the series to be re-evaluated in a DE/TT setting, but I don't agree that it was entirely his fault.
His knee lifts, sure, didn't notice that before, only felt like he wasn't slowing down much (also didn't SLAM his own brakes for sure). I didn't even watch his legs and hands the first time. Watching them again makes me notice his hands... Which do absolutly nothing to avoid the incident, and almost looks like he turns into the incident.
Also, if where the leading car was was really off-line for that track (looks on-line to me, but it's hard to tell in videos) why didn't the trailing car just take the pass on-line? Is that against the rules in that series? If not, then there's no excuse, especially not for not taking a little bit extra caution when passing someone who is known to be a hazard.
Yes, I agree the driver in front should be removed from the series to be re-evaluated in a DE/TT setting, but I don't agree that it was entirely his fault.
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maintain your line! that's all i can say. The faster car has the responsibility to make a clean pass on the car in front as the slower car has the responsibility to maintain their line so the faster car can make a clean pass.This is all apart of racing everyone at some point will make a mistake on the track but unfortunately this one cost 2 cars and a race.
Last edited by URBANRCR; Jun 25, 2009 at 03:50 PM.
I agree that it wasn't a "SLAM" of the brakes in typical terms of this forum, but it was certainly an unneeded and apparently inconsistent rapid deceleration. I believe the passing Vette tried to do something but it was one of those "ah..crap..." moments. You can kind of see him shimmy then almost feel him brace for impact.
I can't remember if it was the original passing vette's comments or just on his thread but to paraphrase '...unfortunately without drivers like Jack, a lot of these events wouldn't happen.' Out of a field of however many drivers there will certainly be the creme de la creme (which the passing vette certainly seemed to be part of) but there will definitely be slower drivers. Whether they are not as experienced, sorting things out with their car, etc. You see it in all forms of racing from Karts to motox to NASCAR, etc.
I can't remember if it was the original passing vette's comments or just on his thread but to paraphrase '...unfortunately without drivers like Jack, a lot of these events wouldn't happen.' Out of a field of however many drivers there will certainly be the creme de la creme (which the passing vette certainly seemed to be part of) but there will definitely be slower drivers. Whether they are not as experienced, sorting things out with their car, etc. You see it in all forms of racing from Karts to motox to NASCAR, etc.
That was a break check,. Nice and clear. Talk is talk, that is a video proof.
In the race You have to be predictable and consistent. Very basic rules.
He failed both basic rule. I do how ever blame on the track officials too.
One of these guys doesn't belong a same group or the same class of race there.
They should have black flag one of them, depend rest of the driver skills and cars.
But the bottom line is , that guy doesn't belong in any race track with that attitude.
Until he learns and USES a basic rules of track racing.
Simple is that.
ps he had an instructor with him, anyone knows?
One of these guys doesn't belong a same group or the same class of race there.
They should have black flag one of them, depend rest of the driver skills and cars.
But the bottom line is , that guy doesn't belong in any race track with that attitude.
Until he learns and USES a basic rules of track racing.
Simple is that.
ps he had an instructor with him, anyone knows?
They should have black flag one of them, depend rest of the driver skills and cars.
But the bottom line is , that guy doesn't belong in any race track with that attitude.
Until he learns and USES a basic rules of track racing.
Simple is that.
ps he had an instructor with him, anyone knows?
Dude.. focus.. it was a race.. no 'instructor'.
Also, every class runs with different classes. Just because he was 'supposed' to be faster is irrelevant.
definitely agreed with that point, Ryan. Even more reason to go less aggressive when you're coming up on someone at 50+.
BTW - I watched that video of yours. Good lord that Camaro came in hard on you. Good thing you expected that from him!
BTW - I watched that video of yours. Good lord that Camaro came in hard on you. Good thing you expected that from him!
Braking on the race line on the oncoming car = passing car, called : break check.
different classes means he should have to check his mirror more rapidly since there are much faster cars on track. And he had more then enough time to see the coming car and make a right move, do nothing, just keep moving at his own pace....
The second car i'm sure he planned the pass after the turn in the straight. Which was doable. But the plan goes out the window if you do a break check. That is a clean first car mistake.
Nobody plans to slam into an other car. So the second guy , as he drives we can be sure he planned out the pass. He can not plan sudden braking on race line without any reason.
That is i'm sure is not in any racer mind when he planning the passes in racing.
we can go around it , but i'm convinced that was a first cat mistake, if wasn't intentional.
Bottom line is , if that was a race , then that was a clear break check, corner exit or straight , sudden braking on the passing car... He should be penalized for that. In F1, ETCC, DTM etc. races you would get it. no question.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Jun 25, 2009 at 04:28 PM.
Not anymore, no, because of an incident my dad decided to sell his car and thus I lost my race car, but I've been autocross/TT/DE/racing for almost 7 years now. It's TT/DE for me in my street car. I instruct for the local SCCA.
If Skip Barber were ever to come back to Miller we'd be all over that, but because the people at Miller were... less than polite to the Skip Barber team, I doubt they will ever come back.
If Skip Barber were ever to come back to Miller we'd be all over that, but because the people at Miller were... less than polite to the Skip Barber team, I doubt they will ever come back.
Alright, watched it again like 19 times. Definitely not slamming his brakes, stopping speed sure, because he was going slow already, but certainly not a SLAM. I've seen track prepped cars slam their brakes (I've slammed brakes in a track car too) and they definitely don't cost to a stop like that, there's smoking tires when track cars slam brakes. I still say he would've hit the other car whether it hit it's brakes or not since it was going so slow.
His knee lifts, sure, didn't notice that before, only felt like he wasn't slowing down much (also didn't SLAM his own brakes for sure). I didn't even watch his legs and hands the first time. Watching them again makes me notice his hands... Which do absolutly nothing to avoid the incident, and almost looks like he turns into the incident.
Also, if where the leading car was was really off-line for that track (looks on-line to me, but it's hard to tell in videos) why didn't the trailing car just take the pass on-line? Is that against the rules in that series? If not, then there's no excuse, especially not for not taking a little bit extra caution when passing someone who is known to be a hazard.
Yes, I agree the driver in front should be removed from the series to be re-evaluated in a DE/TT setting, but I don't agree that it was entirely his fault.
His knee lifts, sure, didn't notice that before, only felt like he wasn't slowing down much (also didn't SLAM his own brakes for sure). I didn't even watch his legs and hands the first time. Watching them again makes me notice his hands... Which do absolutly nothing to avoid the incident, and almost looks like he turns into the incident.
Also, if where the leading car was was really off-line for that track (looks on-line to me, but it's hard to tell in videos) why didn't the trailing car just take the pass on-line? Is that against the rules in that series? If not, then there's no excuse, especially not for not taking a little bit extra caution when passing someone who is known to be a hazard.
Yes, I agree the driver in front should be removed from the series to be re-evaluated in a DE/TT setting, but I don't agree that it was entirely his fault.
I can so easily put myself in this trailing Vettes seat. You cant imagine how difficult it is to execute a safe maneuver, let alone any maneuver, in such a high-speed section. Watching this footage reminds me of a somewhat similar situation i was in recently during a race:
This happened at Big Willow. I made a move on my competitor through T8 by going on the inside. We are probably going +120mph. I closed in on a SRF pretty quickly. He was sort of mid-track so i set him up to pass him on the inside. He then went from mid-track to closing the door on me on the inside. I had to get on my brakes, and just barely put 2-off to avoid him. In-car footage never really does racers any justice. Either way, it was a close one. On top of that, the transition through T8-9 is a really high-speed section. If the SRF driver had done what the Vette did in this video, ie get on his brakes really hard, i would have crashed into his rear end. Plain and simple. Heres my in-car from that race. You can watch it all unfold from about the 3:00 marker:
http://vimeo.com/4984561
Like i said, in-car footage doesnt really do us racers any justice, so you cant really tell how close it was. But, it was a really close one. So i cant imagine what would have happened if he would have applied his brakes as hard as that Vette guy.
His knee lifts, sure, didn't notice that before, only felt like he wasn't slowing down much (also didn't SLAM his own brakes for sure). I didn't even watch his legs and hands the first time. Watching them again makes me notice his hands... Which do absolutly nothing to avoid the incident, and almost looks like he turns into the incident.
The driver of the trailing car wasn't paying good enough attention to his surroundings and was surprised by the slower car.
It happens to all of us... This mistake just happened to be very expensive.
A lot of a fast lap time at VIR is made by climbing those esses at high speed. Once you get to the top right hander you are not in a position to lift-off, much less hit the brakes, unless you want to find yourself going down a grassy hill backward at 120 mph. It's a turn that you definitely have to commit to. I don't think it would have been an option for the overtaking Vette to hit the brakes and stay behind the slower car. That would have put him off the track for sure. And, BTW, there isn't a lot of runoff to the left side of the track since they built condos there trackside. Just a big concrete retaining wall to greet you if you go off fast. 2:01 is smoking fast. The AMS time attack Evo was just barely under 2:00 on VIR full and it has a ton more HP than that Corvette. He was flying through the turns to get that lap time.
Wasnt paying good enough attention? And he was surprised by the slower car? I dont think you understand. The leading car went off line and got on his brakes really hard. All the while in a high-speed section. That goes against everything we are taught for racing. Besides, thats one of the things everyone learns in HPDE. You cant expect a racer to anticipate such an unpredictable/inconsistent maneuver.