Hey folks, I know a few of you on here in person, and most of you by name. My wife and I have been campaigning an ST prep'd 2000 2.5RS Impreza (since new) with a few years off running an STU STi, and most recently dabbling in a borrowed EVO, our good friend Geoff’s 2003 VIII. Having (finally) grown tired of losing in the spec civic class we are seriously considering buying and preparing an STU EVO.

three big questions…

• can we live without ABS? we both left-foot brake and neither of us have had much, if any success driving non-abs equipped cars (civcs/miatas)
• would ACD drive us nuts? I’m tending to think it might
• if ABS and no ACD, could I live with an open front diff? I drove Geoff’s 03VIII at last year’s Western States Championship in Vail and had a pretty hard time getting used to it. Tasha seems to be ok without the LSD though (she has a lot more seat time in it).

and a hypothetical:
if they remove the boost limitations in STU how big of an advantage will the IXs have over the VIIIs? could a good/great tune compensate enough (the cars are traction limited afterall).

I’m most anxious about the lack of ABS (if we went with an 04 RS).
This will be our “daily driver” (thankfully we have a very short commute!)

thanks for your input!

Doug and Tasha Mikko

 

No question. RS. If its a build for track car, the only good platform to start is the RS.
You will love the ACD. Specially after you reprogram it. or you buy some after market ACD ECU .

 

we can't reprogram or otherwise mess with the ACD in STU; do you think I'd still love it?

 

i think so. It is a great unit. Also the RS is already "stripped" so its easy to move other classes if you want to, also its is easier to build .
I would get an 05 and above RS if you can.
The RS is a great base car for racing. You can build ANYTHING from it.
Too bad the X didnt have an RS option.

 

I'm still apprehensive of the ACD though.. the 04' RS is also reported to be the lightest.. maybe?

 

maybe.
But that is the beauty of it from the 05 you can go in any direction.
And that weight is negligible. My opinion get the ACD but that is personal.

 

Here's my take on it...

- You don't need an RS to win STU nationally. While they are lighter, it's not a deal-breaker. The IX SEs and older Evo 8s are not really THAT much heavier, and you get power windows, more sound deadening, etc., which is nice for a street car. If the car also HAS to be a daily driver, I would probably throw out the RS right off the bat...
- What exactly are you apprehensive about with the ACD? For what it's worth, I can't really tell the difference between the VCD and ACD cars, all other things being equal. There are not a whole lot of VCD cars with a front diff, and all ACD cars DO have a front diff... so I think most of the difference comes from that. Again, ACD (or lack thereof) is not a deal-breaker, but the front diff is VERY nice to have. Not only does it provide a traction benefit (obviously), but it is also a lot stronger than the open diff.
- If the boost restriction is removed (which I highly doubt will happen), there is little chance the Evo 8s will be competitive anymore. There is a significant difference between what an 8 and a 9 can make with STU mods, especially when you start turning the boost up.

Starting from scratch, I would recommend finding some sort of Evo 9 - RS, SE, whatever. They are just a lot more competitive (on paper) than the Evo 8s and are usually easier to find in good condition. But the 8s can still get it done, as Nats results have shown...

 

Honestly I don't think the weight advantage of an RS will make a difference in STU. That being said I'm more accustomed to the non-ABS of the RS so jumping into a car with ABS and driving it hard feels weird for a few runs. I think learning to get the most out of the equipment at hand surpasses the actual equipment.

For example the general consensus for campaigning an S2000 in AS has been to use an AP2. Last year an AP1 ended up beating everyone else, including the awesome CRs.

 

I was hoping you'd chime in, thanks for your opinion, I appreciate it.

I agree with that, within reason of course. I'm going to have a real uphill battle trying to catch up to folks that have 7+ years autocrossing their EVOs, should be interesting
one other factor that is starting to tip my hand, the IX's look to be upwards of $6,000 more that the VIIIs... that's a set of Motons and tires, yikes... it's starting to pencil out that I should probably find the best/least expensive, lowest milage model I can find and use the savings from that on building it out with the best of the best. $6k would go a long long ways in that regard...

03-04 VIII (GSR):
ABS
VCD

03-04 VIII (RS)
lighter(ish)
front LSD
no ABS
VCD

05 VIII (All)
$3-4K more
ACD
revised turbo

IX (All)
$6k+ more money
ACD
variable valve timing; most power

and just to verify, all the RS's are without ABS? even if they have the ACD?

 

That pretty much sums it up.

I guess I have the most successful STU '04 RS, although it's not really that successfull (a couple of tour trophies, 1 tour win, 3 mid-pack nationals finishes). That being said, my car has never _really_ been fully built. I still run the OE battery, seats, rotors. I've added a radio and speakers. My catback weighs like 50 lbs, rather than 20 like it should. At this point, I have left the class, so I have no incentive to keep cards close to my chest.

For me, only one thing matters in STU. Weight.

Weight. Weight. Weight.

It is very easy to get an '04 RS below 3000 lbs and for a class with spec tires, that's a big deal.

I think the front limited slip is a definite advantage, but everything else seem to be a wash. The 2003 GSR is the only model to have won and is by far the most successful with Rick, Geoff, Russ, et al. Coincidence?

As for ABS. It's a mixed bag. I don't think it's a deal breaker. Having driven many different evos, I don't feel it is worth a lot of time. However the EBD system does greatly increase confidence when trail braking. If I could have installed it, I would have. The Berry's BSP car has ABS added.

I'm not a fan of the ACD, as configured from the factory. I don't think the added weight is worth it for STU.

d

 

do all the ABS equiped Evos have the EBD as part of that system?

 

Yes. At least all recent evos (7,8,9,10).

d

 

I really don't think the RS makes for a particularly bad daily driver, though that probably depends on your driving habits and what you're used to. I think the manual windows are the nicest I can ever recall using, and since I mostly drive by myself, power locks aren't much benefit to me. I came from a '95 Integra and was amazed at how quiet the Evo was in comparison. Looks pretty nice with no rear wing and no rear wiper as well IMO. Add a radio and you're set.

Given the cars that have had some success with varying levels of prep, getting the right suspension/alignment setup still seems far more important than starting with the absolute best car. The 2003 looks the worst on paper, yet it has had a lot of success. The fact that those guys have been driving their cars a while helps I'm sure!

The only times I've missed ABS, I've already blown a corner and it's not going to be my fastest run. I wouldn't mind having it, but I don't really feel like I'm missing much either. My co-driver left-foot brakes and he doesn't have any issues with the lack of ABS.

If I had to do things over again I would prefer to start with a IX RS just out of principle - I think it should be the best car, but I'm not a good enough driver to prove that.

 

Wasn't sure whether to start a new thread or bump this one, tell me if I got it wrong.

On the flip side of this, is there any reason *not* to get an MR? It has the Al roof, but the 6 speed is a little heavier... are there any other real differences that matter for purposes of STU?

thanks
john

 

weight
the best info I found on the weights of the different models was here: http://www.vorshlag.com/tech_evoweights.php

the two gear boxes have different strengths/weaknesses as well, one of them had stronger low gears, the other stronger mid/high gears.. I forget which