First race event with SE...
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Reading, MA
First race event with SE...
Hi guys,
Well after having fun with BMW guys in the school several months back, this weekend I managed to be at my first official SCCA event. Did some changes to the car before which pretty much brought it back to the stock trim. Basically, swapped back my OEM tires instead of DSW all seasons and flipped the crash bolts in the front to get additional degree of camber. All of that was completed with alignment (0 toe in the front and 0.04 degrees of toe-in (basically at the manufacturers edge) in the rear). Car definitely felt more grippy in the front with new tires and extra camber. I wish I also increased the camber in the rear, but that will happen at the other time, I guess.
Event it self was interesting since several other guys I used to race with back in late 90s made it there for the first time in ages. So, I left trainy in S-Sport and manual. AWC was in Gravel, and traction was in OFF-OFF position. It was pretty hot with temps in high 90s. After few runs I was a bit frustrated because transitioning was very difficult with the car. Even slight steering inputs would bring the tail out and I just couldn't keep it under control. Steady state was pretty good and rear end was coming around pretty nice. Unfortunately, I was not ready to drive that car as fast as it should have been. All my runs were pretty safe and I just couldn't bring my self closer to that edge.
One of the reasons for it is the noise that those street tires make. Now, the OEM Yokos make much less noise compared to the DSWs, but compared to the race tires, the noise was horrible. With race tires (that means last few generations of Hoosiers), once you get more noise you are already over the edge and you need to correct what you are doing. With street tires, they start to scream quite early on, but then they need to be pushed even further in order to get maximum traction from them. I just could get my self to go there mainly by not knowing what the car will do once it gets there! If I had driven my old car with old setup that I know I could have thrown into the corner hard and it would come out of it the way it should, with this car I just don't trust it yet. Any other attempt to do the same with the street tires doesn't come appealing at all and unless I get some race rubber for it, it will be hard to do this again.
Still, I was able to see some interesting things. First one is about OEM tires. They hold the heat in them incredible long! Even after not racing on them for 3 hours after the morning runs, they where still at 130 to 140 degrees. I was spraying them down with ice water, but it just didn't help much. I believe that two driver setup on the hot day and 6 runs each would probably destroy the tires completely.
Second thing was about traction control. I was running it at OFF-OFF, but I think now that OFF position would work much better for the street tires. Race rubber might require more action so OFF-OFF position might be better, but for the tires I have, I don't think so any more. I also did the test the very next day on the on ramp that I usually use for testing and with traction in OFF position I managed to go the faster ever through it. Of course, more of testing on the autoX course is needed, but I do believe at this time that keeping the AYC Break ON, might keep transition under control a bit better, which would be of great help.
As of going after other cars in BS, it is still to hard to say. Street tires give you quite different feel from the race rubber that any comparison is almost impossible to make. Down the line, I am still slightly optimistic, but more testing is definitely needed. Then, with addition of race tires (and 5 mm offsets for the wheels), then shocks, and finally front sway bar, things will be more clear. We did have one of the top guys in the country in their GXP and they where about 4-5 second faster then me and other EVO driver that was there. The thing is their car is making 260 HP and 260 ft/lb of torque and it weights 2850. That makes it 600-700 lb lighter then EVO X. So, potentially capable of 330 HP and about as much of torque with AWD advantage, it still might be too hard to match. They also have lower CG and at least as much rubber we could get in the stock trim. Still, sometime sum of all parts is greater on one car then the other, so lets see how the dice will be rolling in the future!
Fedja
Well after having fun with BMW guys in the school several months back, this weekend I managed to be at my first official SCCA event. Did some changes to the car before which pretty much brought it back to the stock trim. Basically, swapped back my OEM tires instead of DSW all seasons and flipped the crash bolts in the front to get additional degree of camber. All of that was completed with alignment (0 toe in the front and 0.04 degrees of toe-in (basically at the manufacturers edge) in the rear). Car definitely felt more grippy in the front with new tires and extra camber. I wish I also increased the camber in the rear, but that will happen at the other time, I guess.
Event it self was interesting since several other guys I used to race with back in late 90s made it there for the first time in ages. So, I left trainy in S-Sport and manual. AWC was in Gravel, and traction was in OFF-OFF position. It was pretty hot with temps in high 90s. After few runs I was a bit frustrated because transitioning was very difficult with the car. Even slight steering inputs would bring the tail out and I just couldn't keep it under control. Steady state was pretty good and rear end was coming around pretty nice. Unfortunately, I was not ready to drive that car as fast as it should have been. All my runs were pretty safe and I just couldn't bring my self closer to that edge.
One of the reasons for it is the noise that those street tires make. Now, the OEM Yokos make much less noise compared to the DSWs, but compared to the race tires, the noise was horrible. With race tires (that means last few generations of Hoosiers), once you get more noise you are already over the edge and you need to correct what you are doing. With street tires, they start to scream quite early on, but then they need to be pushed even further in order to get maximum traction from them. I just could get my self to go there mainly by not knowing what the car will do once it gets there! If I had driven my old car with old setup that I know I could have thrown into the corner hard and it would come out of it the way it should, with this car I just don't trust it yet. Any other attempt to do the same with the street tires doesn't come appealing at all and unless I get some race rubber for it, it will be hard to do this again.
Still, I was able to see some interesting things. First one is about OEM tires. They hold the heat in them incredible long! Even after not racing on them for 3 hours after the morning runs, they where still at 130 to 140 degrees. I was spraying them down with ice water, but it just didn't help much. I believe that two driver setup on the hot day and 6 runs each would probably destroy the tires completely.
Second thing was about traction control. I was running it at OFF-OFF, but I think now that OFF position would work much better for the street tires. Race rubber might require more action so OFF-OFF position might be better, but for the tires I have, I don't think so any more. I also did the test the very next day on the on ramp that I usually use for testing and with traction in OFF position I managed to go the faster ever through it. Of course, more of testing on the autoX course is needed, but I do believe at this time that keeping the AYC Break ON, might keep transition under control a bit better, which would be of great help.
As of going after other cars in BS, it is still to hard to say. Street tires give you quite different feel from the race rubber that any comparison is almost impossible to make. Down the line, I am still slightly optimistic, but more testing is definitely needed. Then, with addition of race tires (and 5 mm offsets for the wheels), then shocks, and finally front sway bar, things will be more clear. We did have one of the top guys in the country in their GXP and they where about 4-5 second faster then me and other EVO driver that was there. The thing is their car is making 260 HP and 260 ft/lb of torque and it weights 2850. That makes it 600-700 lb lighter then EVO X. So, potentially capable of 330 HP and about as much of torque with AWD advantage, it still might be too hard to match. They also have lower CG and at least as much rubber we could get in the stock trim. Still, sometime sum of all parts is greater on one car then the other, so lets see how the dice will be rolling in the future!
Fedja