I wasn't comparing 100 vs E85 directly.

I was comparing the benefits of 100oct to me vs BOTH E85 and 110/112 leaded racegas.

For example: The comment about running a cat. That obviously is an issue with running leaded 110; not running 100 unleaded or E85.

 

One thing i havn't seen anyone talk about is the various state laws in regards to transporting fuel. I kno New York has some pretty strict laws about transporting fuel.

 

I thought maybe you where. That is why I asked.

 

Your race weight is always noted AFTER the race, with the driver in the car. So when youre making calculations, its better to do it with little to no gas.

Building a car for TT/TA is not the same as building a car for racing. If you actually plan on racing, and doing it regularly, you better open up your checkbook. Parts wear out, and when they do, you will need to replace everything.

HPDE and TT/TA doenst count here. I dont know you or your driving background so please dont be offended. Unless youre a pro in disguise im guessing your lap times are nowhere near where they need to be. You have to think of it like this...whatever lap time is the fastest time a capable driver can set in your car, he has to be able to repeat that lap time within a few tenths for 45min. So not only does the driver need to be capable, the car needs to be capable also. If the driver is capable but your car doesnt have the capacity to last 45min then it doesnt count. Because if you have to slow down several seconds each lap lets say 20min into the session for your car to last 45min, then youll be consuming less gas. So given that scenario, it doesnt count if you say your car can last 40-45min running e85 on a full tank of gas.

I dont get on the forums much these days so i forget everyones name. I think youre Justin? Im sure your car is a blast to drive with that much power, but im not a fan of that approach. I think experience to a certain extent shapes our decisions, and with what ive seen over the years from others peoples mistakes is that your setup is more likely to fail sooner compared to others. If your engine/turbo/supporting parts havent failed already, you are more likely to face issues pretty soon. This is something you should take very seriously if you plan on racing regularly. That also depends on how competitive your region is. If you race in a competitive region you typically have to push it most of the time. If your region isnt competitive, you can drive around pretty much at whatever pace you want. Im sure youve thought of all this already, but either way i wanted to let you know that this is something you need to think about.

 

I've been sticking with 110 leaded split 50/50 with 93. That brings the price down to about $5 per gallon for a 103 octane cocktail.

I drive my junk to the track on 93 and add 110 when I get there. The tune is modest so even a couple gallons of 110 makes it safe.

I do run E85 when not competing simply because the car makes more power, its cheaper, and it doesn't kill my O2 sensors.

I used to lug 15 gallons of 110 with me simply to save a few bucks at the track but after one close call on the freeway I decide I didn't want to die a napalm like death on the highway.

 

i built my car for racing i built it to NASA rules, with a cage, etc etc etc.... mine is not a SSE evo by any means, its not going to break every session out there...anymore . with that said a true race car is engineered to last the duration of the race and not any farther. i know yours isn't built to that spec either, so i would bet yours is prepped much like our TTA cars.

 

Oh yes, it is always better to side with safety than a few extra horsepower.

 

The challenge with ST2 is that since the major limiting factor is our w/p ratio, the list of mods i can do to my car is pretty much endless. So with that perspective, yes, there is a great deal i can do to my car to make it faster. But thats never been my goal. From day 1 ive focused on a certain type of package thats relatively inexpensive yet potent and reliable. That gave me the opportunity to just focus on racing. I could have taken that budget and spent more on modifying my car, like most people, and i would have had a faster car, but that would have meant that i wouldnt have raced as much. Experience was more important for me, so i figured out a way to mod my car that would put me in a position to win but at the same time i also had the budget to race somewhat regularly. As far as modifying my car, realistically i would probably do no more than 1-2 other additions. Ive only been racing for 3yrs, but the way i look at it is that at least i have some experience. So the people that come into ST2 with more money in their cars are going to have a hard time racing against me because ive done relatively well without certain things. And if i ever do those mods, they wont stand a chance against me.

 

I run E85!

-Cheaper
-Burns Cooler

^Those two advantages right there sell it for me! Yes, running E85 requires you to pay more attention to your tune, but I'm already doing that when I'm at the track anyways. As R/TErnie has said above, the characteristics under boost and low burn temp is a big advantage over race gas.

 

Bumping with some updates. In general lots more people use e85 then race gas for obvious reasons. But almost every single person here has a different driving style and setup so if you're hearing about it for the first time take note. In my case it's starting to look like I'm gonna have to go backwards. This weekend along with meeting our new regional Director, I met with John Lindsey whom is the Chief Division Director, and Greenbaum's boss.

Rewind a month ago, in essence I went ahead and got the smallest FT3 certified fuel cell, an ATL RACELL, to use as an expansion/surge tank to run e85 with. The debate originally at Nasaville was if you do install a surge tank, they would "prefer" that you use a certified cell rather then a welded aluminum tank typically found in most cases, but nothing in the rules really specified. So on went the install, around 1300 when I was done with lines, AN fittings, feed pump, inline 255, Cell, mounts, etc etc etc. To get the clearest picture so I wouldn't get side-swipped at nationals I asked John about the install prior to doing all the fab work required to seal off the rear seat area, box the cell, etc etc. In a very short amount of time he referred to the CCR rules section 15.4 with all of the "must be FT3 certified, must have xyz thickness box, must have FT3 foam baffling, so on and so forth. Doesn't matter how much FUEL it contains. He also stated there is going to be a technical bulletin already in progress stating as much soon.

In summary, don't go to the expense like I did to find out the following:

1. Fuel Surges in FT3 form are not worth it as they cost as much as a regular cell to install properly
2. Alum surge tanks will be illegal since they are NOT FT3 certified (race groups only, I hope, have to wait and see)
3. Stick with the OEM tank and do what Ham does and jack the b*tch up to get as much fuel in there as possible, or do a PROPER fuel cell for your fuel type/distance.

I've run straight 93, 93 mixed with leaded, straight leaded, straight e85, e85 mixed with 93 and so on over the years. Now instead of spending an additional 1500 to get the "surge tank" setup according to the rules I'm going to go back to OEM and use 98 or 100 octane. Testing to follow in March to see what the MPG is but should be more then enough with others results already.

 

There is also the option of Rockett Brand E85 racing fuel for those concerned about consistency of pump E85. I think it is currently about $7-8/gallon. With the loss of Federal subsidies for ethanol production the price of pump E85 will probably soon be higher than normal 93 pump gas, and ALL ethanol will be much higher this year also. My local E98 supplier now charges about $8 per gallon compared to $4 last year.

 

The reason why i dont consider it, because it is a very unstable gas vs race gas. It is picks up moisture from air very quickly,and already lacking the btu numbers by a mile vs race gas.

So for me i would just end up spend a same money with more hassle and weight, in rally racing.

 

I thought we were only allowed to use pump e85 for NASA TT/racing?

 

buying it from a pump, blending it yourself, or buying it from rocket brand makes no difference as long as its 85% ethanol and the rest is gasoline. if they really cared at the track, they would test it, or provide it for you. if they tested all 3, they would all be the same anyway.


one of the cars we run at the track has the ethanol content analyzer in it, and so far it has been 85% every time.

 

it does absorb water, but if you store it in a sealed container, your not going to have that problem. less BTU/gallon is true, but race gas doesn't come close in latent heat of vaporization... so while you have to run a 30lb intercooler to reduce IAT, the ethanol does it for us chemically . plus the octane rating of the ethanol is higher then 100oct race gas, and power wise is comparable to Q16 which is 16$/gallon

E85 is on par with 93 oct as far as cost to run. race gas is many times more expensive. at the track we can get 100 or 110. both showed 9 dollars/gallon at the pump. i know the 110 was more then 9 dollars/gallon i just think that is as high as the pump would read. the 20-30% more ethanol consumed due to its differing stoichiometric ratio does not equal a 200-300% jump in price like race gas would.

with that said, if you don't have E85 by you, its not really an option