that car is essentially going in a straight line. its not pulling hardly any Gees at all.

this car IS going in a straight line. it is pulling exactly 0 lateral Gees.
send the Data log of your car with the lateral Gees. every data logger i have ever seen for sport racers at least has that data.

again, that car is pulling 0 lateral Gees. going in a straight line does not hold the oil on one side of the oil pan.

i'm not sure where you got that from... but an F1 car on dirt? f1 cars are purpose built for pavement. a rally car wouldn't come within 15 seconds of a f1 car on a track. even 80's tech. the f1 cars were also turbo, making upwards of 1000+hp in qualifying trim, they are much lighter, create a LOT more downforce, lower CG, bigger stickyier tires, etc...



we assembled Daves time attack winning pikes peak motor in 2010. it is nothing special at all. stock oil pan, basic 2.4L build... no oil squirters, no dry sump, and no oil starvation.

i think you are assuming rally tech is something other race engineers don't understand. the cars all work the same way. rally cars have much beefier suspension. restricted engines demand higher torque and run less power. its not rocket science.


show me a log of your oil pressure and lateral Gees through a rally stage on dirt. surely you have this...?

i can show you a log (once i dig it up) of one of the fastest autocross cars in the country doing circles at different speeds logging oil pressure. you can see how the Gees increase, oil pressure suddenly drops off once the pickup is starved (its a wet sump system). and we fixed it by building gates in the oil pan and moving the pickup as low as possibly.

 

you will love this, for entertainment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-thgG...eature=related

but you are still talking about road race cars vs f1 cars vs rally cars, and who drives harder ... LOL

I am talking about oil starvation in the engine. Which as you said do not exist under 600+whp.
And i am saying yes it is very possible , depending on the race and the driver . LOL
Anyway its a pointless argument between us, since we are talking about two different things.

I was suggesting a cheap insurance for a track car with build engine, which is $100/race for the bearing change -including oil change with it at the bottom.

and from there anyone does what he thinks its a best for him or her.

Rob

ps: start watching wrc videos and you will see sharp turns - long sweepers etc. i just don't want to derail the thread even more.

like this, which is your argument point rally car vs road race car :
the best part here the WRC is equipped with hard gravel tires and raised up/ softened to the snow level... WHy? dont know. Never mind a fact about the more wight and less power. But here we should stop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdEbLSNKqW0
and this is how the "properly" set up same WRC car looks . Start watching from 30 sec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoMNnyj55q4

 

I think we all know rally cars cant hit a sustained 4g's.

Kevin, I think you tuned my car (Josh's old Evo IX MR) and its at 476whp on the stock block. I'm not sure how long it'll last at those power levels. I'm in the same boat as the OP and am looking into a good reliable build.

Lets get back more on topic please.

 

600 view bump! Hoping for more input on this.

 

I'm dropping a long rod 2.0L in this month. Manley rods and Manley 9:1 pistons, all arp hardware, ported head, gsc s2's with a Ef3 turbo on e-85. I plan on running 26-28 pounds on track.

 

So what is going on with your build getsideways? I hear you bought a new toy.

I think I am going to go the route of building my own motor and see what happens. My old talon took ALOT of abuse and it held up. It was a stock block with J&E / Eagle with a FP3065.

I am a little paranoid to do it myself but live and learn I guess.

I am going to go with the stock block and just bought a 2.4 crank. Looking into rods and pistons yet.

 

I've been running an AMS built 2.0l for the past 4 years (Crower rods, Ross stock compression pistons, no balance shafts, stock oil system) mostly on street tires, r-comps only last year. Oiling is definitely becoming a concern with the r-comps. IMO the only stroker kit I'd trust for road racing is AMS. AMS 2.3RR stroker on their TA1 car has years worth of racing on it, and AFAIK it hasn't blown up yet (not counting a blown turbo). I don't know of any others that can claim anywhere near that longevity, other than JID2's. I could be wrong, though. Personally I've always preferred the sound and feel of a higher revving engine, which is why I went the 2.0L route. Nothing quite like revving it out past 9K RPM.

l8r)

 

The price on the 2.3RR is just a little too much I think. If you knew it would go forever, then it would be worth it. If anything happens to it, good got that is alot of money down the drain.

Anyone have any thoughts on CP pistons?

 

Theres a couple ways to go about this, prices are dropping on used parts and you can garage build your own engine for under $1200 using your own block while refreshing nearly everything. Cheap yes, but IF you blow a hole in the block your not out 5K plus like you would be through a shop.

Or Pony up and spend the 5k at a reputable shop and hope that it will be more reliable as their proven knowledge should make it. Worth the 4k... I wonder.

I bought a factory Never ran 4G69 (2.4) and will be using the stock crank, adding MAP rods and Wiseco 10.5:1 HD pistons. Im buying new front case, water pump, oil pump, ECT.
My hope is this motor will be the ultimate in reliability as it was new at the time of the build.

Im adding a AMS CNC head with GSC S2 cams to the top end, Will be using E85 and the MAP EF3 turbo and hopefully be around 500WHP 450WTQ at around 24PSI for track safety and in the high 500s for the occasional Banzai run.

I have a lot to figure out and hopefully will be partnering with MAP a little more seriously this coming year, They are the ultimate in customer service and i hope to help them extend that further into the road race and competition side of the community.

I dont think i would mess with CP when there is something as proven as the Wiseco HD on the market. Theres little to gain IMO and a lot to loose with something unproven.


Edit about the 2.3rr and the buschur RPM there have been plenty of both motors grenaded There is no reason for me to believe these will outlast a typical motor and their added cost doesnt make sense.
Beyond that the 2.3RR in the road race car you speak of HAS been rebuilt according to my sources, No one has to believe that but its what i know.

 

I think this discussion has to have some sort of a target as to where the engine will be raced in...

Building a Drag car vs a Circuit car running a short-ish 12 laps vs an endurance race car running 6 hours or so will all yield a different solution to the strategy in building the engine...

I am interested to know how to build a car with a modest 300 whp, but will last a 6 hour endurance race...because if it can do that, then the sprint race of 12-18 laps, where the cars are limited to 300 whp should be cake...These are the 2 major race events in my area at least...

 

I hope your build goes well Getsideways. Looking forward to getting a ride or better yet, racing you again sometime in the near future. Hopefully my back allows me to get back out on the track once and awhile.

As for the CP pistons, I made a thread on them and have had nothing but good feedback on them so far. CBRD has had numerous cars with them and said to have no problems.

I am still going to do a little more research before I make a decision. I have all winter yet. I hate the cold!!!

 

At that power level i dont think you can beat the factory longblock. The only things you will 'need' would be a better oil cooler and radiator along with some thicker oil for the endurance race.

Unless your allowed to have insanely high TRQ numbers theres no reason to build it at all.

 

how do you guys address crankcase pressure? is this something that should be taken into consideration for builds of 400-500whp?

 

I ended up going with a regular BR 2.3 build with their stage 3 head. Unfortunately I got it finished a bit late in the season, so I never got a real chance to get it out on the track. Just did 3 autox events to give it a good shake down plus trying to fit larger tires was a pain.

Crossing fingers everything goes well next year and I can get a few events in.

 

Hey Evoizmm, did you figure out what you are going to do for crank case pressure? Going to have VPT weld on some 10an fittings?