Clutch Recommendation
Aug 23, 2011, 05:14 PM
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Clutch Recommendation
Well, my stocker is fine, but I am contemplating doing a little R&D with it in the coming months and wanted to have a clutch, flywheel, and diff pin setup sitting in the garage during my looming down time. I am debating the Spec 3+, ACT 6'er, and the ACT HDSS along with an ACT Streetlite or MAP flywheel. I am not overly excited about clamp pressures or looking like a dbag at redlights, just reliably getting some launches in 2-3 times a month at the local autox. Anyhow, I am looking for some long term experiences with clutches and setups, not necessarily so much the things you have read about clutches and setups on the internet. The most I would ever put on my car is an FP Green with pump, so I don't need to stop the rotation of the Earth or anything. I remember reading a post about I think Kelly, or someone, getting over 100k miles on an HDSS, that is the kind of thing I am interested in. Anyhow, maintaining my stock CMC for as long as possible while providing enough performance to manage my monstrous 350ish torque is good enough for me. 
Aug 23, 2011, 06:04 PM
#2
I've had three different aftermarket clutches throughout various cars:
1. Centerforce Dual Friction (DSM)
2. Southbend DXD (DSM)
3. Competition Stage 3 (Evo IX)
I'm going to disregard the CFDF since I literally haven't heard anything about those in ten years. The Southbend clutches have gotten a bad rep in the Evo world but I loved that clutch, it held whatever I threw and it and always came back for more. I launched the hell out of that clutch too and it never seemed to care. Regarding the Comp clutch it continually gave me problems, but it was always the pressure plate or throwout bearing, I loved the Kevlar disc, it held power, grabbed hard, and took repeated autocross launches and frequent hard high-RPM shifts. When my X needs a new clutch I plan to go with a disc similar to the Comp 3's but with a more reliable pressure plate. Which leads me to the two front-runners on my clutch choices right now: Clutchmasters FX300 and the WORKS CK2. Both of these are rated to hold in excess of your goals (450-500 wtq). The SPEC Stage 2 and 2+ also fit within these parameters.
What I like about CM is that all their discs and flywheels are manufactured by Exedy.
With the WORKS clutch I basically trust the name. Everything they put their name on seems to be track tested and proven, and I've been very happy with everything I've bought from them. I don't know this for certain, but I suspect SPEC makes their clutch kits.
One thing that worries me about SPEC is the number of pad rivet failures I keep hearing about; this is the internet though so who really knows, things tend to get blown way out of proportion very quickly. A rivet failure did happen to one of our local members though and it damaged his bell housing in the process.
I've personally never owned a ACT clutch but they seem to be very hit or miss, a lot of shops won't even touch them while others swear by them. I've driven a HDSS which I thought was a good street clutch since it had smooth engagement once you got used to the heavy pedal. The HDG6 (sprung 6-puck) I think would be vast overkill for your goals though. People seem to like them, but every time I drive one I can never get over how grabby/jerky they are; definitely something I wouldn't want in a daily-driver, especially if I ever had to sit in traffic with it (this goes for all puck clutches I've driven).
I had a Competition flywheel in my IX and had no issues with it; it had enough thickness where it could be resurfaced a few times and still be fine for use (I had it resurfaced once). I do like MAP's flywheel (same as Fidanza's and WORKS's) with the replaceable friction ring. We put a used WORKS flywheel in PlanoEvo's car and replacing the friction ring was cheap ($39) and easy to do. Aluminum is also beneficial since it dissipates heat more quickly which should help lengthen any clutch disc's life, especially if you plan to race with it. Lightweight flywheels to make launching and daily-driving a bit trickier since they have less mass, but the advantage is quicker shifts in the upper RPM's. I think I'm going to pass on a lightweight flywheel for my X since I enjoy how smoothly it drives in traffic, but if you don't plan to commute in traffic with your car anymore and just want it as a weekend toy and autocross machine then I say go for it, a lightweight flywheel would then be a great choice.
1. Centerforce Dual Friction (DSM)
2. Southbend DXD (DSM)
3. Competition Stage 3 (Evo IX)
I'm going to disregard the CFDF since I literally haven't heard anything about those in ten years. The Southbend clutches have gotten a bad rep in the Evo world but I loved that clutch, it held whatever I threw and it and always came back for more. I launched the hell out of that clutch too and it never seemed to care. Regarding the Comp clutch it continually gave me problems, but it was always the pressure plate or throwout bearing, I loved the Kevlar disc, it held power, grabbed hard, and took repeated autocross launches and frequent hard high-RPM shifts. When my X needs a new clutch I plan to go with a disc similar to the Comp 3's but with a more reliable pressure plate. Which leads me to the two front-runners on my clutch choices right now: Clutchmasters FX300 and the WORKS CK2. Both of these are rated to hold in excess of your goals (450-500 wtq). The SPEC Stage 2 and 2+ also fit within these parameters.
What I like about CM is that all their discs and flywheels are manufactured by Exedy.
With the WORKS clutch I basically trust the name. Everything they put their name on seems to be track tested and proven, and I've been very happy with everything I've bought from them. I don't know this for certain, but I suspect SPEC makes their clutch kits.
One thing that worries me about SPEC is the number of pad rivet failures I keep hearing about; this is the internet though so who really knows, things tend to get blown way out of proportion very quickly. A rivet failure did happen to one of our local members though and it damaged his bell housing in the process.
I've personally never owned a ACT clutch but they seem to be very hit or miss, a lot of shops won't even touch them while others swear by them. I've driven a HDSS which I thought was a good street clutch since it had smooth engagement once you got used to the heavy pedal. The HDG6 (sprung 6-puck) I think would be vast overkill for your goals though. People seem to like them, but every time I drive one I can never get over how grabby/jerky they are; definitely something I wouldn't want in a daily-driver, especially if I ever had to sit in traffic with it (this goes for all puck clutches I've driven).
I had a Competition flywheel in my IX and had no issues with it; it had enough thickness where it could be resurfaced a few times and still be fine for use (I had it resurfaced once). I do like MAP's flywheel (same as Fidanza's and WORKS's) with the replaceable friction ring. We put a used WORKS flywheel in PlanoEvo's car and replacing the friction ring was cheap ($39) and easy to do. Aluminum is also beneficial since it dissipates heat more quickly which should help lengthen any clutch disc's life, especially if you plan to race with it. Lightweight flywheels to make launching and daily-driving a bit trickier since they have less mass, but the advantage is quicker shifts in the upper RPM's. I think I'm going to pass on a lightweight flywheel for my X since I enjoy how smoothly it drives in traffic, but if you don't plan to commute in traffic with your car anymore and just want it as a weekend toy and autocross machine then I say go for it, a lightweight flywheel would then be a great choice.
Last edited by Kracka; Aug 23, 2011 at 06:09 PM.
Aug 23, 2011, 06:14 PM
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I've had three different aftermarket clutches throughout various cars:
1. Centerforce Dual Friction (DSM)
2. Southbend DXD (DSM)
3. Competition Stage 3 (Evo IX)
I'm going to disregard the CFDF since I literally haven't heard anything about those in ten years. The Southbend clutches have gotten a bad rep in the Evo world but I loved that clutch, it held whatever I threw and it and always came back for more. I launched the hell out of that clutch too and it never seemed to care. Regarding the Comp clutch it continually gave me problems, but it was always the pressure plate or throwout bearing, I loved the Kevlar disc, it held power, grabbed hard, and took repeated autocross launches and frequent hard high-RPM shifts. When my X needs a new clutch I plan to go with a disc similar to the Comp 3's but with a more reliable pressure plate. Which leads me to the two front-runners on my clutch choices right now: Clutchmasters FX300 and the WORKS CK2. Both of these are rated to hold in excess of your goals (450-500 wtq). The SPEC Stage 2 and 2+ also fit within these parameters.
What I like about CM is that all their discs and flywheels are manufactured by Exedy.
With the WORKS clutch I basically trust the name. Everything they put their name on seems to be track tested and proven, and I've been very happy with everything I've bought from them. I don't know this for certain, but I suspect SPEC makes their clutch kits.
One thing that worries me about SPEC is the number of pad rivet failures I keep hearing about; this is the internet though so who really knows, things tend to get blown way out of proportion very quickly. A rivet failure did happen to one of our local members though and it damaged his bell housing in the process.
I've personally never owned a ACT clutch but they seem to be very hit or miss, a lot of shops won't even touch them while others swear by them. I've driven a HDSS which I thought was a good street clutch since it had smooth engagement once you got used to the heavy pedal. The HDG6 (sprung 6-puck) I think would be vast overkill for your goals though. People seem to like them, but every time I drive one I can never get over how grabby/jerky they are; definitely something I wouldn't want in a daily-driver, especially if I ever had to sit in traffic with it (this goes for all puck clutches I've driven).
I had a Competition flywheel in my IX and had no issues with it; it had enough thickness where it could be resurfaced a few times and still be fine for use (I had it resurfaced once). I do like MAP's flywheel (same as Fidanza's and WORKS's) with the replaceable friction ring. We put a used WORKS flywheel in PlanoEvo's car and replacing the friction ring was cheap ($39) and easy to do. Aluminum is also beneficial since it dissipates heat more quickly which should help lengthen any clutch disc's life, especially if you plan to race with it. Lightweight flywheels to make launching and daily-driving a bit trickier since they have less mass, but the advantage is quicker shifts in the upper RPM's. I think I'm going to pass on a lightweight flywheel for my X since I enjoy how smoothly it drives in traffic, but if you don't plan to commute in traffic with your car anymore and just want it as a weekend toy and autocross machine then I say go for it, a lightweight flywheel would then be a great choice.
1. Centerforce Dual Friction (DSM)
2. Southbend DXD (DSM)
3. Competition Stage 3 (Evo IX)
I'm going to disregard the CFDF since I literally haven't heard anything about those in ten years. The Southbend clutches have gotten a bad rep in the Evo world but I loved that clutch, it held whatever I threw and it and always came back for more. I launched the hell out of that clutch too and it never seemed to care. Regarding the Comp clutch it continually gave me problems, but it was always the pressure plate or throwout bearing, I loved the Kevlar disc, it held power, grabbed hard, and took repeated autocross launches and frequent hard high-RPM shifts. When my X needs a new clutch I plan to go with a disc similar to the Comp 3's but with a more reliable pressure plate. Which leads me to the two front-runners on my clutch choices right now: Clutchmasters FX300 and the WORKS CK2. Both of these are rated to hold in excess of your goals (450-500 wtq). The SPEC Stage 2 and 2+ also fit within these parameters.
What I like about CM is that all their discs and flywheels are manufactured by Exedy.
With the WORKS clutch I basically trust the name. Everything they put their name on seems to be track tested and proven, and I've been very happy with everything I've bought from them. I don't know this for certain, but I suspect SPEC makes their clutch kits.
One thing that worries me about SPEC is the number of pad rivet failures I keep hearing about; this is the internet though so who really knows, things tend to get blown way out of proportion very quickly. A rivet failure did happen to one of our local members though and it damaged his bell housing in the process.
I've personally never owned a ACT clutch but they seem to be very hit or miss, a lot of shops won't even touch them while others swear by them. I've driven a HDSS which I thought was a good street clutch since it had smooth engagement once you got used to the heavy pedal. The HDG6 (sprung 6-puck) I think would be vast overkill for your goals though. People seem to like them, but every time I drive one I can never get over how grabby/jerky they are; definitely something I wouldn't want in a daily-driver, especially if I ever had to sit in traffic with it (this goes for all puck clutches I've driven).
I had a Competition flywheel in my IX and had no issues with it; it had enough thickness where it could be resurfaced a few times and still be fine for use (I had it resurfaced once). I do like MAP's flywheel (same as Fidanza's and WORKS's) with the replaceable friction ring. We put a used WORKS flywheel in PlanoEvo's car and replacing the friction ring was cheap ($39) and easy to do. Aluminum is also beneficial since it dissipates heat more quickly which should help lengthen any clutch disc's life, especially if you plan to race with it. Lightweight flywheels to make launching and daily-driving a bit trickier since they have less mass, but the advantage is quicker shifts in the upper RPM's. I think I'm going to pass on a lightweight flywheel for my X since I enjoy how smoothly it drives in traffic, but if you don't plan to commute in traffic with your car anymore and just want it as a weekend toy and autocross machine then I say go for it, a lightweight flywheel would then be a great choice.
Aug 23, 2011, 06:15 PM
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the ACT clutch is the best clutch you can put in an evo for a sub 450whp car IMO. i had the HDSS in my street car for 80k miles with maybe hundred+ launches with 500whp... it autocrossed and road raced as well. i put a HDG6 in it when the first act went out and love that clutch as well. jim F. had his HDSS in his car for 120+k miles with tons and tons of track miles on it, that is until he let me take it for one lap and it exploded 
needless to say thats what we put in the car again we run a HDG6 in joshs TTA X as well.
lockout issues are almost always because of the soft front motor mount, or when people do the XDSS kit (doesn't work well).
i have driven just about every clutch you can put in an evo and the ACT HDSS is the closest to stock that has the strength for launching repeatedly. the sprung 6 puck is a little better for the launching because it grabs better, but as kracka mentioned, it is slightly grabby (although, NOTHING compared to a QM twin or any carbon clutch).
as for flywheels, going to a lightweight flywheel will make the drivability of the clutch worse. less mass means more revs required to leave at a light. go to light and they tend to shudder pretty bad. the stock flywheel is pretty light too (12-13lbs).
needless to say thats what we put in the car again we run a HDG6 in joshs TTA X as well.lockout issues are almost always because of the soft front motor mount, or when people do the XDSS kit (doesn't work well).
i have driven just about every clutch you can put in an evo and the ACT HDSS is the closest to stock that has the strength for launching repeatedly. the sprung 6 puck is a little better for the launching because it grabs better, but as kracka mentioned, it is slightly grabby (although, NOTHING compared to a QM twin or any carbon clutch).
as for flywheels, going to a lightweight flywheel will make the drivability of the clutch worse. less mass means more revs required to leave at a light. go to light and they tend to shudder pretty bad. the stock flywheel is pretty light too (12-13lbs).
Aug 23, 2011, 06:17 PM
#5
The only bad I can think of regarding the HDSS is the high RPM lockout issue some people seem to experience, but again this is hit or miss and could very well depend on the installer and it's adjustment. One of my friends who beats the living **** out of his Evo more than anyone else I know had a HDSS and had zero issues with it until he built his head and started revving his engine beyond 8k RPM. Below 8k RPM and it shifted fine, but when he tried shifting above 8k it would always lock him out. He then switched to the HDG6 and no longer experienced lock-out, but wasn't too thrilled with it's drivability. One thing all HDSS owners seem to have in common is clutch LONGEVITY. They just seem to last forever. Hmm...I feel like I am talking myself into a HDSS here 
Search for Smike's review of the HDSS too, he had nothing bad to say about it before switching to the Fidanza 3.2.
Search for Smike's review of the HDSS too, he had nothing bad to say about it before switching to the Fidanza 3.2.
Last edited by Kracka; Aug 23, 2011 at 06:21 PM.
Aug 23, 2011, 06:22 PM
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the ACT clutch is the best clutch you can put in an evo for a sub 450whp car IMO. i had the HDSS in my street car for 80k miles with maybe hundred+ launches with 500whp... it autocrossed and road raced as well. i put a HDG6 in it when the first act went out and love that clutch as well. jim F. had his HDSS in his car for 120+k miles with tons and tons of track miles on it, that is until he let me take it for one lap and it exploded needless to say thats what we put in the car again we run a HDG6 in joshs TTA X as well.
lockout issues are almost always because of the soft front motor mount, or when people do the XDSS kit (doesn't work well).
i have driven just about every clutch you can put in an evo and the ACT HDSS is the closest to stock that has the strength for launching repeatedly. the sprung 6 puck is a little better for the launching because it grabs better, but as kracka mentioned, it is slightly grabby (although, NOTHING compared to a QM twin or any carbon clutch).
as for flywheels, going to a lightweight flywheel will make the drivability of the clutch worse. less mass means more revs required to leave at a light. go to light and they tend to shudder pretty bad. the stock flywheel is pretty light too (12-13lbs).
needless to say thats what we put in the car again we run a HDG6 in joshs TTA X as well.lockout issues are almost always because of the soft front motor mount, or when people do the XDSS kit (doesn't work well).
i have driven just about every clutch you can put in an evo and the ACT HDSS is the closest to stock that has the strength for launching repeatedly. the sprung 6 puck is a little better for the launching because it grabs better, but as kracka mentioned, it is slightly grabby (although, NOTHING compared to a QM twin or any carbon clutch).
as for flywheels, going to a lightweight flywheel will make the drivability of the clutch worse. less mass means more revs required to leave at a light. go to light and they tend to shudder pretty bad. the stock flywheel is pretty light too (12-13lbs).
I am definitely going to upgrade the diff pins and at minimal resurface the stock flywheel. I have read many horror stories about a substantially lighter flywheel on the X as well.
Aug 23, 2011, 06:31 PM
#7
Kevin - Do you use the ACT-supplied throwout bearings or do you replace them with a genuine OEM Mitsu? Or does ACT supply actual Geiken bearings?
Jose - Some clutch manufactures seem to supply Chinese junk TOB's while other's supply actual OEM Mitsu ones. Unless you see it marked Geiken (Exedy) I would be tempted to get one from the dealer.
Jose - Some clutch manufactures seem to supply Chinese junk TOB's while other's supply actual OEM Mitsu ones. Unless you see it marked Geiken (Exedy) I would be tempted to get one from the dealer.
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Aug 23, 2011, 07:12 PM
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Kevin - Do you use the ACT-supplied throwout bearings or do you replace them with a genuine OEM Mitsu? Or does ACT supply actual Geiken bearings?
Jose - Some clutch manufactures seem to supply Chinese junk TOB's while other's supply actual OEM Mitsu ones. Unless you see it marked Geiken (Exedy) I would be tempted to get one from the dealer.
Jose - Some clutch manufactures seem to supply Chinese junk TOB's while other's supply actual OEM Mitsu ones. Unless you see it marked Geiken (Exedy) I would be tempted to get one from the dealer.
Aug 23, 2011, 07:46 PM
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Kevin - Do you use the ACT-supplied throwout bearings or do you replace them with a genuine OEM Mitsu? Or does ACT supply actual Geiken bearings?
Jose - Some clutch manufactures seem to supply Chinese junk TOB's while other's supply actual OEM Mitsu ones. Unless you see it marked Geiken (Exedy) I would be tempted to get one from the dealer.
Jose - Some clutch manufactures seem to supply Chinese junk TOB's while other's supply actual OEM Mitsu ones. Unless you see it marked Geiken (Exedy) I would be tempted to get one from the dealer.
we always use the ACT supplied TOB. i've never seen one fail and they are identical to the OEM ones.
i have seen the knock offs before, and they are definately not ACT/oem quality.
Aug 23, 2011, 08:03 PM
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i have a solid hub 6 puck. it grabs very harsh from a stop, is a pain in the *** 100% of the time when not already moving, and barks like a seal(shimanchu's quote). It's tough though, tough enough to handle my beating on it with 500 hp and launching every weekend for drag racing... breaking all 4 wheels loose in wet parking lots and ripping sh** up through the dirt.
I had lots of problems with the sprung hub clutch though, replaced 3 or 4 in a period of 6 months, finally going with the solid hub. The last sprung hub the disc melted around a spring, the spring then shot through the pressure plate splines and for a finishing touch took out my throwout bearing, all at once, POW!!!
This clutch is holding out just fine. my next clutch might be the quartermaster push-type twin disc
I had lots of problems with the sprung hub clutch though, replaced 3 or 4 in a period of 6 months, finally going with the solid hub. The last sprung hub the disc melted around a spring, the spring then shot through the pressure plate splines and for a finishing touch took out my throwout bearing, all at once, POW!!!
This clutch is holding out just fine. my next clutch might be the quartermaster push-type twin disc
Aug 24, 2011, 01:54 AM
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I have the Spec 3+ and MAP flywheel combo, and have really liked it so far. It's not ridiculously difficult to drive, pedal feel is just a little stiffer than stock, and it definitely grabs like no other. Now, on the other hand I did have some major issues with the first one that was installed, but between Cobb working very hard to make sure that I was treated correctly and Spec EVENTUALLY ponying up for the damage, it all turned out well. Cobb even has a way to check the rivets now to assure that they don't have this issue with any they install again. All in all, I would say that I really do like the combo that I have. It's easier to handle than I would expect for a clutch that can handle that kind of power, combo'd with a lightweight flywheel. If you're still interested in this setup, you're perfectly welcome to drive my car a bit to check it out.
