Just got back from getting my car aligned....after a RobiSpec..
Wow those before specs are pretty whacked. I don't know how the front two cambers were so different, since one of the eccentric bolts would have been facing up and the other facing down to have such vastly different cambers.
The front toe is what is so obscene. It was obviously too much in the back, too, but the front was ridiculously so! No wonder the tires corded.
For reference, my settings are:
Front -1.8 camber, 0 toe in
Rear -1.3 camber, 1/16 toe in
The somewhat aggressive camber causes some tramlining, but it is tolerable.
The front toe is what is so obscene. It was obviously too much in the back, too, but the front was ridiculously so! No wonder the tires corded.
For reference, my settings are:
Front -1.8 camber, 0 toe in
Rear -1.3 camber, 1/16 toe in
The somewhat aggressive camber causes some tramlining, but it is tolerable.
Like I said, I dunno what occured but I know that neither myself nor Eric hit anything rough so that's....pretty much what he got from Robi. *shrug*
I am MORE than happy with how it is now. It feels LIGHTYEARS better.
I am MORE than happy with how it is now. It feels LIGHTYEARS better.
Originally Posted by HolyShiznit
Like I said, I dunno what occured but I know that neither myself nor Eric hit anything rough so that's....pretty much what he got from Robi. *shrug*
I am MORE than happy with how it is now. It feels LIGHTYEARS better.
I am MORE than happy with how it is now. It feels LIGHTYEARS better.
To be honest, I am very surprised to see how far off everything was. I was expecting to see a well set-up aggressive alignment, but what the before stats are showing me is a total disaster.
There's got to be more to the story. I just can't see Robi setting something up that screwy. I mean, you could probably eyeball it and see that the setting was totally messed up.
I'm no suspension expert so I can't surmise what could have happened. Maybe someone like Robi can chime in and let us know what could have caused this.
I don't really want Robi to defend himself, nor do I think he has to. I am happy now and he has had plenty of success stories. I wish him the best and it's unfortunate that Eric/My particular set-up didn't pan out. Oh well, it only cost me a new set of Michelin PS2 275's ahahhahah.
I am used to doing alignments in degrees not inches anymore, but just going off some quick conversions the rear isnt out "that bad" as far as toe angle. I would put money on the tires having been rotated at least once or twice and then ending up on the back. The 3/4" of total toe in the front is what killed the tires.
For reference I run the following and have since march with only minimal wear (all camber very little toe scrub)
Front 2.2* even both sides 0* total toe
Rear 1.8* even both sides -.05* per side (.10 total) (slightly less than a 1/16)
I have at least 5,000 miles on this setup and I took them off to put on my track stuff and noticed that it was time to rotate a little because the front had camber cupping (no wear in the back thats worth mentioning).
For reference I run the following and have since march with only minimal wear (all camber very little toe scrub)
Front 2.2* even both sides 0* total toe
Rear 1.8* even both sides -.05* per side (.10 total) (slightly less than a 1/16)
I have at least 5,000 miles on this setup and I took them off to put on my track stuff and noticed that it was time to rotate a little because the front had camber cupping (no wear in the back thats worth mentioning).
Last edited by JohnBradley; Oct 4, 2006 at 10:43 PM.
question why do you have toe in the rear? I searched the forums and most reccomended 0 toe all the way around? I just got an alignment with -1.8 camber in front and -1.3 in the back with 0 toe all around. The alignment guy actually reccomened some toe in the rear but I said it was alright. I am going back on tuesday because i cross threaded the camber bolt 
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Newbie
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: sammamish, WA
Sorry to hear that the alignment was that far off. It was what Robi aligned. I only put a couple thousand miles on after the alignment. The tires were still like new when I sold the car.
I had told him that I wanted an agressive street/ mild track alignment. I told him that I would normally consider this to be about -2.0 camber front with 0 toe. Rear should be less neg. camber (-1.5) with and minimal toe in. This spec has worked for me in the past for other cars for aggressive street/track driving while maintaining some reasonable wear. Even at that, I wouldn't expect more than 5,000 miles on a set of DOTR tires with such a setup. The PS2's should have lasted much longer even on an aggressive alignment. I agree with you now that the alignment was not setup for the street - he must have thought that it would be a track-only car. My apologizes.
I had told him that I wanted an agressive street/ mild track alignment. I told him that I would normally consider this to be about -2.0 camber front with 0 toe. Rear should be less neg. camber (-1.5) with and minimal toe in. This spec has worked for me in the past for other cars for aggressive street/track driving while maintaining some reasonable wear. Even at that, I wouldn't expect more than 5,000 miles on a set of DOTR tires with such a setup. The PS2's should have lasted much longer even on an aggressive alignment. I agree with you now that the alignment was not setup for the street - he must have thought that it would be a track-only car. My apologizes.
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: sammamish, WA
In all fairness to Robi, I had told him that I was used to running AO36's, BFG-KD's, and Pilot Cup's with an expected 5,000 mile life for combined track/ steet use.
Even with that, the PS2's had a reputation for very much longer wear. That's why I paid the premium for these tires. The car had not seen the track since these mods and these tires were installed. Again, I'm sorry that the alignment didn't meet your needs for the street.
Also, the car never hit a curb or anything else that would affect the alignment. It was a low mileage garage queen since Robi aligned it.
And no, the tires had never been rotated. If you do have to replace the tires, don't get another set of PS2's. They're expensive and their turn-in response isn't very good.
Even with that, the PS2's had a reputation for very much longer wear. That's why I paid the premium for these tires. The car had not seen the track since these mods and these tires were installed. Again, I'm sorry that the alignment didn't meet your needs for the street.
Also, the car never hit a curb or anything else that would affect the alignment. It was a low mileage garage queen since Robi aligned it.
And no, the tires had never been rotated. If you do have to replace the tires, don't get another set of PS2's. They're expensive and their turn-in response isn't very good.
Originally Posted by EricR
Sorry to hear that the alignment was that far off. It was what Robi aligned. I only put a couple thousand miles on after the alignment. The tires were still like new when I sold the car.
I had told him that I wanted an agressive street/ mild track alignment. I told him that I would normally consider this to be about -2.0 camber front with 0 toe. Rear should be less neg. camber (-1.5) with and minimal toe in. This spec has worked for me in the past for other cars for aggressive street/track driving while maintaining some reasonable wear. Even at that, I wouldn't expect more than 5,000 miles on a set of DOTR tires with such a setup. The PS2's should have lasted much longer even on an aggressive alignment. I agree with you now that the alignment was not setup for the street - he must have thought that it would be a track-only car. My apologizes.
I had told him that I wanted an agressive street/ mild track alignment. I told him that I would normally consider this to be about -2.0 camber front with 0 toe. Rear should be less neg. camber (-1.5) with and minimal toe in. This spec has worked for me in the past for other cars for aggressive street/track driving while maintaining some reasonable wear. Even at that, I wouldn't expect more than 5,000 miles on a set of DOTR tires with such a setup. The PS2's should have lasted much longer even on an aggressive alignment. I agree with you now that the alignment was not setup for the street - he must have thought that it would be a track-only car. My apologizes.
Last edited by EricR; Oct 5, 2006 at 02:19 AM.
Originally Posted by EricR
Sorry to hear that the alignment was that far off. It was what Robi aligned. I only put a couple thousand miles on after the alignment. The tires were still like new when I sold the car.
I had told him that I wanted an agressive street/ mild track alignment. I told him that I would normally consider this to be about -2.0 camber front with 0 toe. Rear should be less neg. camber (-1.5) with and minimal toe in. This spec has worked for me in the past for other cars for aggressive street/track driving while maintaining some reasonable wear. Even at that, I wouldn't expect more than 5,000 miles on a set of DOTR tires with such a setup. The PS2's should have lasted much longer even on an aggressive alignment. I agree with you now that the alignment was not setup for the street - he must have thought that it would be a track-only car. My apologizes.
I had told him that I wanted an agressive street/ mild track alignment. I told him that I would normally consider this to be about -2.0 camber front with 0 toe. Rear should be less neg. camber (-1.5) with and minimal toe in. This spec has worked for me in the past for other cars for aggressive street/track driving while maintaining some reasonable wear. Even at that, I wouldn't expect more than 5,000 miles on a set of DOTR tires with such a setup. The PS2's should have lasted much longer even on an aggressive alignment. I agree with you now that the alignment was not setup for the street - he must have thought that it would be a track-only car. My apologizes.
Rear Toe Out on a track car is dangerous! Under threshold breaking the rear end of the car will want to come out, and basically be very unstable. That is NOT what you want
when braking.
Then while it will have wonderful turn in (stock EVO turns in sweet) but will be loose
mid corner as the car still wants to rotate, again very dangerous.
Forget about trail braking into a turn, the car can have have snap brake oversteer. The rear will want to swap ends with the front.
With that setup you will be fighting the car at every braking zone & every turn. With the bad pavement at PR it's even worse! While the car will feel great turning in, every thing else suffers, and the car will be slower, and it's also much harder on the tires & causes a lot of tire drag. Plus it will fatigue the driver with the car wanting to go where it wants instead of where it's pointed.
Yes, I'm being a little dramatic. But unless you are an experienced driver & know what your getting into, never do toe OUT in the rear!