I think the Civic would be faster than a lot of the cars you listed.

dude... duuude... duuuuuuuuude...

honda fanboi's were paying over 35k (after dealer markup) for this thing back in '08, and its just a regular civic si with a couple of meaningless bolt ons and mugen badges
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-specs-page-2

the CTR is honda's first enthusiast turbo offering in the US, its the first Type R in the US since the late '90's, and it holds the fwd lap record at the 'ring. fanboi's will be lining up to have their parents to overpay the crap out of this thing!


but I completely see your point, I mean Camaro 1LE or this? its a no contest...

I don't think so. The new Camaro 1LE is really good. The two AWD cars I mentioned, maybe. But, after owning one FWD "performance" car. I will never do so again. Especially not at anywhere near this price point.

what was your FWD "performance" car?

So that's one, the Camaro. We'll have to wait for actual performance tests to come out. At the end of the day, I doubt Honda will have a problem selling the car at that price point.

MKV GTI. K04 turbo upgrade and other assorted bolt ons, KW coilovers, 245/35r18 tires shoved under it, clutch and front diff upgrade, etc.

Agree. You ask me between a Camaro SS 1LE vs the the TypeR and I will not think it twice and pick the Camaro.

Now vs the competition (RS, STI, Golf R). The TypeR sucks in off the line acceleration but it will rock on any acceleration test that doesn't involve launching from zero.

Is a trade off that you need to consider.

was that the gen that didn't let you turn off traction control? and lets face it, Honda does FWD a lot better than VW does.. except for that one nurburgring special that held the fwd record for a while that you can't even buy in the US

The stock answer is always SS 1LE these days. Hell, a base v6 6th gen Camaro with suspension is an animal.

Honda knows how to make FWD cars handle. I think the Civic will out handle all of the apparent competitors.

It was a 2007, so it could be completely turned off. The GTI is touted as a great car, mine did all the typical fwd drive things. Lift off over steer, was pretty neutral on power, etc. Just wasn't as much fun as my bone stock Evo when I got the Evo. And the Evo wasn't actually faster.

Honda does do FWD better than anyone... I still DD my 07 Si more often than not. Stock lsd + konis + rotrex SC = a lot of fun

Still not as fun as a stock Evo though, which is what turns me away from the Type R. FWD at that price point is a no go... though I was expecting closer to $40k MSRP. The 08 Mugen Si makes this look like a bargain :lol: :lol:

No doubt it will perform well.. and no doubt Honda fans will line up to buy them

But to be fair, I don't think you can compare the performance of any of Honda's Type-R models to a VW GTI.

As for the rest of the thread: To quote pretty much any magazine, to this day, " this (Honda/Acura Integra Type-R) is one of the best handling cars ever made. Forget that it's front wheel drive, it just isn't a factor". It's still being said in current editorials. It's been at the top of any list I've seen, even compared to newer cars. That was the DC2 version, though. To be honest I haven't heard nearly the same reviews on the DC5.
Having owned one and driven other cars to compare it to, I can agree. And yes: that is the Integra, not the Civic. It's a shame we never got it, but reviews for the CTR, in other countries, is just as favorable and I'm sure we can agree it has stiffer competition in other places than it would in the U.S.

**Edit: the CTR lived on longer than I realized. The later ones seemed to have not been all that and a bag of chips. Still decent, but suffered from lack of steering feedback which, IMO, is one of the things that made the Type-R great.

My Evo is more fun as a whole, but I think I had more fun in the ITR on a road course. It was light, ridiculously nimble, and did things a FWD car just shouldn't be able to do. If I didn't have a certain demographic in my town, I'd be daily driving one now, instead of my Civic. Taking it to AutoX and track days would be a bonus. When it came down to an HPDE day.. I'd seriously have to consider which to take. Yes, I thought Type-R groupies were all fan bois,.. until i bought one.
That being said, I can't imagine the new one being as enjoyable, due to size, weight, and complexity. But I bet it will be 1,000,000 times better than a GTI.

If that makes me a fan boy, then yeah, I am. Would I pay $35k for a Civic? Probably not. However, the base model is about $20k, the Si is $24k, and we've all see then performance figures for it's nearest competitor. Maybe it's not THAT bad.
We can compare upgrade prices:
2017 Civic Si: $24k -> Type R: $35k
2017 WRX: $27.5k -> STi: $36k
2015 Lancer Raliiart: $28k -> Evo X: $39k

So, is it really that far off? Again, no: I just can't pay $35k for a FWD car, mostly because I'm too much of a purist that could get a lot more of a car for that price, IMO.

:lol:

Anyone worried about off-the-line acceleration shouldn't even consider a CTR. They would be completely missing the point.

I know of a few French companies that would disagree... having driven a Clio Sport on the 'ring I'd be hard pressed to pick between them.

:confused:

There is a
V6 1LE ~$29k
and SS ~$38k
and an SS 1LE ~$45k

I think comparing a vehicle which is just released to a vehicle you can snag a deal on because no one is buying them is slightly different comparison. $10k is a lot more money and certainly a different car than an SS 1LE, I see your point if you are looking for a track fun car only, but a CTR can still hold 4 people comfortably and slam lap times. I think it comes down to the buyers general needs/wants out of the vehicle.