Injector scaling and latecy for different injectors.
Originally Posted by KevinD
i have the FIC 650 injectors. i used the latencys listed below and scaled the injectors up to 550. however i kept getting CEL for the P0171 code. it would be way to lean at idle, but the trims could compensate enough to have 14.7 afr. its just that the trims would be nearly maxed out. at WOT, it was just about dead on with some minor tweeking to do. because i need to pass emmisions right now, i scaled the injectors back down to 520 so it wouldn't throw the code. so far no CEL lights. car starts every time on the first rotation even with the mini battery. car idles just fine with either scaling value. i think once i get past the emmisions testing i'm going to leave the scaling at 520 and tune the WOT accordingly. that way no more CELs.
initially scale the 650 injectors a little higher ... somewhere around 600 maybe ?
well from what i've read it is best to go conservative, and scale the injectors smaller then what they really are. thus i started at 550, however, because the fuel trims were maxed out at adding fuel, i was forced to lower them (they weren't injecting enough fuel). they kept throwing codes on me. so i'm at 520 right now and just passed emmisions testing (hurray!) i'm going to tune it tonight at 520 as see how much leaner the OL tables need to go. i really like the idea of not having the CEL on all the time. also, i haven't looked at the trims with the scaling set to 520 yet as i was just shooting really rich just to get the inspection ( i got a ticket for it and have 10 days to fix it). when i leave work i'll report back on the trims and also how much richer it made the OL operation. i suspect no more then 5-10%. my targets were 11.8:1 at WOT before.
You would be surprised if you knew what some AFTERMARKET injectors actually flowed. No mathmatical calculation will suffice. You must test each set individually logging the STFT.
I installed Precision 680cc injectors Saturday and had to take it all the way back DOWN TO 513cc STOCK injector sizing in order for it to stay within range. Even at stock 513, at times it would want to add 5-10% more fuel.
Be careful whose injectors you buy.
I installed Precision 680cc injectors Saturday and had to take it all the way back DOWN TO 513cc STOCK injector sizing in order for it to stay within range. Even at stock 513, at times it would want to add 5-10% more fuel.
Be careful whose injectors you buy.
Also, bigger injectors usually have higher deadtimes, so if you aren't adjusting the latency values, you will have to lower the scaling.
Make sure that you increase the latency values if you want your injector scaling closer to the actualy size of the injectors. You would be surprised how much deadtime increases with different makes and sizes of injectors.
Eric
Make sure that you increase the latency values if you want your injector scaling closer to the actualy size of the injectors. You would be surprised how much deadtime increases with different makes and sizes of injectors.
Eric
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: CA
Hi all!
This is my first post, but I am not new in this forum. I read and research before I bought my EVO IX MR. Recently I just changed new injector from AMS 780cc, I set to 713 it ran and Idle just fine, But I have problem when start up. It take longer time to start up the engine, usually when I turn the key on the engine start right away, now everytime it crank a few time to start. Is it normal ? or I have to do something?? please help !!!!!!!!!!
This is my first post, but I am not new in this forum. I read and research before I bought my EVO IX MR. Recently I just changed new injector from AMS 780cc, I set to 713 it ran and Idle just fine, But I have problem when start up. It take longer time to start up the engine, usually when I turn the key on the engine start right away, now everytime it crank a few time to start. Is it normal ? or I have to do something?? please help !!!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted by TKPIXMR
Hi all!
This is my first post, but I am not new in this forum. I read and research before I bought my EVO IX MR. Recently I just changed new injector from AMS 780cc, I set to 713 it ran and Idle just fine, But I have problem when start up. It take longer time to start up the engine, usually when I turn the key on the engine start right away, now everytime it crank a few time to start. Is it normal ? or I have to do something?? please help !!!!!!!!!!
This is my first post, but I am not new in this forum. I read and research before I bought my EVO IX MR. Recently I just changed new injector from AMS 780cc, I set to 713 it ran and Idle just fine, But I have problem when start up. It take longer time to start up the engine, usually when I turn the key on the engine start right away, now everytime it crank a few time to start. Is it normal ? or I have to do something?? please help !!!!!!!!!!
This may help you with what is needed beyond
just entering the injector scaling number.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: CA
My car didn't like any setting below 680, it run to lean. Changed my setting to 700, and delay time of each voltage, it start up and ran great. JDM setting didn't work for me. Thanks for info guys. 
My setting
7v 2.186
9.4v 1.369
11.7v 0.895
14v 0.610
16.2v 0.419
18v 0.290
My setting
7v 2.186
9.4v 1.369
11.7v 0.895
14v 0.610
16.2v 0.419
18v 0.290
Originally Posted by TKPIXMR
My car didn't like any setting below 680, it run to lean. Changed my setting to 700, and delay time of each voltage, it start up and ran great. JDM setting didn't work for me. Thanks for info guys.
My setting
7v 2.186
9.4v 1.369
11.7v 0.895
14v 0.610
16.2v 0.419
18v 0.290
My setting
7v 2.186
9.4v 1.369
11.7v 0.895
14v 0.610
16.2v 0.419
18v 0.290
Are saying that your car starts good and runs good in closed and open loop mode ?
Last edited by Spec'd; Dec 1, 2006 at 05:21 PM. Reason: cause it was fun.
Originally Posted by bez_bashni
Posting my AFR- proven values for 780CC PTE INJECTORS.
I U made your scalings (AND PROVED THEM ON WIDEBAND AFR) for different ones -post them here.
Injectors Delfi? Prescision labeled injectors-780 cc.
Injector scailing :609!
Battery voltage Latency:
3.312
1.68
1.032
0.672
0.432
0.264
0.144
(stock)
No other tables touched .Stock-like idle.
I U made your scalings (AND PROVED THEM ON WIDEBAND AFR) for different ones -post them here.
Injectors Delfi? Prescision labeled injectors-780 cc.
Injector scailing :609!
Battery voltage Latency:
3.312
1.68
1.032
0.672
0.432
0.264
0.144
(stock)
No other tables touched .Stock-like idle.
This is also Dynoflashes settings.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: CA
Hi guys!
I feel lost power, and the car have problem with cold start. when engine hot I start it normal. I changed different program setting and reduce scale setting to 660 I got my idle and hp back but still have problem with cold start. It take a few crank to start up ( The only problem I have now is when engine cold ). It is ok to increase voltage at 11v and 14v ? Thanks.
I feel lost power, and the car have problem with cold start. when engine hot I start it normal. I changed different program setting and reduce scale setting to 660 I got my idle and hp back but still have problem with cold start. It take a few crank to start up ( The only problem I have now is when engine cold ). It is ok to increase voltage at 11v and 14v ? Thanks.
Originally Posted by TKPIXMR
Hi guys!
I feel lost power, and the car have problem with cold start. when engine hot I start it normal. I changed different program setting and reduce scale setting to 660 I got my idle and hp back but still have problem with cold start. It take a few crank to start up ( The only problem I have now is when engine cold ). It is ok to increase voltage at 11v and 14v ? Thanks.
I feel lost power, and the car have problem with cold start. when engine hot I start it normal. I changed different program setting and reduce scale setting to 660 I got my idle and hp back but still have problem with cold start. It take a few crank to start up ( The only problem I have now is when engine cold ). It is ok to increase voltage at 11v and 14v ? Thanks.
Below is a very intelligible quote from l2r99gst about setting your injector scaling
and adjusting your voltage latency tables.
Originally Posted by l2r99gst
On average, your crusing injector pulsewidths will be double your idle injector pulsewidths. So, any changes that you make in the injector deadtime will affect idle twice as much as it will affect cruising. But, yes, it will affect both if they are both in the same V range that you are adjusting for.
DSMLink used a global fuel setting slider and then an injector deadtime value to tune the injectors. Their global slider was basically the injector scaling value in the ECU and their deadtime was basically what we get to adjust in the voltage latency tables.
But, with the years of experience with DSMLink and seeing others dial in injectors, the above holds true.
Basically, what we did with DSMLink is as follows:
1. Choose a global setting (ECUFlash injector scaling number)
2. Log trims at idle and cruise
3. If trims are roughly the same, but positive, then you need to increase your global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to lower your injector scaling number.
4. If both trims are roughly the same, but negative, then you need to descrease your global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to raise your injector scaling number.
5. If idle trim is more positive than cruise trim, then you need to increase the dead time, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to increase the latency value.
6. If the idle trim is less positive than the cruise trim, you need to decrease the deadtime, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to decrease the latency value.
Note: After #5 or #6, you may need to readjust #1 accordingly.
Note 2: #5 and #6 implicitly answer ludikraut's questions about affecting idle and cruise trims. Basically, let's say that the IPW is 1ms at idle and 2ms at cruise. If you adjust the deadtime to add 100us (.1 ms), then you are affecting the idle fueling 10% and the cruise fueling 5%.
Eric
DSMLink used a global fuel setting slider and then an injector deadtime value to tune the injectors. Their global slider was basically the injector scaling value in the ECU and their deadtime was basically what we get to adjust in the voltage latency tables.
But, with the years of experience with DSMLink and seeing others dial in injectors, the above holds true.
Basically, what we did with DSMLink is as follows:
1. Choose a global setting (ECUFlash injector scaling number)
2. Log trims at idle and cruise
3. If trims are roughly the same, but positive, then you need to increase your global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to lower your injector scaling number.
4. If both trims are roughly the same, but negative, then you need to descrease your global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to raise your injector scaling number.
5. If idle trim is more positive than cruise trim, then you need to increase the dead time, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to increase the latency value.
6. If the idle trim is less positive than the cruise trim, you need to decrease the deadtime, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to decrease the latency value.
Note: After #5 or #6, you may need to readjust #1 accordingly.
Note 2: #5 and #6 implicitly answer ludikraut's questions about affecting idle and cruise trims. Basically, let's say that the IPW is 1ms at idle and 2ms at cruise. If you adjust the deadtime to add 100us (.1 ms), then you are affecting the idle fueling 10% and the cruise fueling 5%.
Eric
