Hello Moderators,

I recently noticed that a thread I was participating in has been deleted. The title was "Start of Functional Undertray". Has this been deleted or merged into a larger aero section??

I am not aware of any bad posts in that thread so I was surprised to see it gone. If there were any inapproptiate posts could they be removed and the thread reopened. There was alot of good information in that thread regarding aerodynamics as they apply to the EVO.

Thank you for any assistance you may provide in this matter.

EVOlutionary

 

Since I wasn't the one who closed it, I went through and reviewed it. After reading through the thread it looks like a product promo thread. In order to promote a product for sale you need to sign up as a vendor.

 

I am not a vendor. I have nothing to do with any company that sells any products other than testing them and giving my feedback on their performance.

The thread starter, JrCRXHF, also is not a vendor. He sells no products and has no stake in any business affair.

However we are friends of the guy who is developing aero pieces for the EVO. If we referred to "we" instead of "he" when talking about designing these pieces, it is solely because we provided the designer with feedback from EVO owners in an effort to help in the design and R+D process.

Please reopen the thread after deleting any posts where price is discussed. It will be kept as informational and educational on the topic of aerodynamics with no mention of product sales.

Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

EVOlutionary

 

I closed and deleted the thread, and I addressed the issue with the original poster. Reason is same as spt said.

 

Regardless of who posted the first post, that thread was more mine than anyone else's. Please reopen it after deleting whatever you think is sales oriented. We will keep it to R+D and technical info with no sales oriented talk.

Although it may make you a couple more $$ by signing up a new "Vendor", by deleting that post in its entirety you have done a disservice to the EVO community, and more specifically to the dedicated racers among us.


EVOlutionary

 

So you would rather have us do a disservice to the vendors that actually do pay to keep the site going and give your friends free R&D?

 

"Although it may make you a couple more $$ by signing up a new "Vendor", by deleting that post in its entirety you have done a disservice to the EVO community, and more specifically to the dedicated racers among us.


EVOlutionary"

And I disagree with your statement. I believe I was acting in the best interests not only of our members, but EvoM as a whole.

 

Not at all. Please read my posts. We were sharing our R+D on EVO aerodynamics for the benefit of the community. As I said, please delete any referrals to sales of the items - that was not the original intention of the thread, but somehow started coming out over time.

And please rememeber Admin, Moderators, AND Vendors are only here because of the EVO community. When this site started it was to share info and discuss topics related to the Lancer and Lancer EVO. Vendors and the cash train came later. . .

Admin and Moderator's #1 priority is the welfare of the individual members first. Without them, there would be no Vendors. . .

EVOlutionary

 

I disagree again. Deleting important, helpful information that we have spent the past year gathering and posting is not in anyone's best interest. The BEST interest of EVOM would be to have the good information kept, and whatever you feel is sales related info deleted.

I am not trying to sell anything. As I have said over and over, please delete any sales oriented posts and reopen the thread with the good information intact.

Thank you,

Jarrod

 

Wrong.

this site started as www.lancerforums.com and can still be accessed that way. The site had 10-12k members before the evo ever came to the states.


But as far as your thread, sign up to become a Manufacturer, and help support this great place.

 

Making a statement like that does make me laugh a bit. Basically what you are saying is "it's a benefit to community if a member of the community pays for the item". So the community would be helping in the creation of the product, making it a nice/functional product to get, but in order to get the product a member would still need to pay for it. Unless these things will be given out for free, remind me how this is a "benefit" to community?

I mean if you really wanted to benefit the community, I think a topic such as "Evo Aerodynamics" with actual tech info would work better then a thread talking about product that is under testing and will be for sale soon to the public.

 

Then why did you submit a vendor advertising inquiry?

 

All good points. Thanks gentlement

To clear up a previous statement - my referral to the "EVO community" was meant to include the Lancer enthusiasts also. I feel Lancer owners are a part of the "EVO community" because it is from that car that the EVO gets its roots.

I am not a manufacturer so therefore I will not be giving you money to call me something I am not. If you want donations from individual members to support the site, my friends and I would be more than happy to contribute. I actually support making this site a member-funded site rather than Vendor-funded. But we would have to see some changes to reduce the seemingly infinite power of Vendors. There have been too many threads come up missing when a vendor doesn't like what a member says about him. . .


I'm sorry I don't follow what you are trying to get at?? Of course I paid for the wing and splitter. I had a friend with aerodynamics background create it from scratch to achieve a goal that I had. By me telling the community about the design of this item, how it differs from the competition, how it made my car handle, all the changes to suspension setup I had to do to optimize it, etc, the community benefits. Maybe someone will buy an APR splitter and have an idea what to expect with the handling of their car and now have info on how to optimize it. Maybe someone will buy a Voltex rear wing and know what to do when adding it to their car causes alot of front end push. . . Maybe someone will email my friend David and ask him about building a wing and splitter combo for thier EVO, or maybe Buschur will like the idea and copy it and tell the world about how he went about copying it.

Who knows, if anyone had inquired, you may have even found out that when these became available to the mass market (still a long way off) they were being sold through a registerred vendor. But we never got to that point did we.

The reason I am upset is because without warning or a chance to rectify the situation, over a year and a half worth of my work, and many hours worth of my time on this forum were wiped off the face of the earth.

Jarrod

 

To clear this up, I will comment. While I understand your view point, we fundamentally disagree. Being on the outside, it is sometimes difficult for members to see what we see and have a good understanding of what actually goes on such as in your comments about the power of vendors and changing this to a member funded community. Its very easy to see a post or thread deleted that had something to do with a vendor and say that we deleted it because the vendor wants it gone and therefore why had to oblige. The reality is far different and vendors have no say over what goes or stay other than to simply point a problem out to us for our staff to judge. I have gone into this in depth before, but basically we have a strict rule system and enforce it, vendor issue or not. Vendor issues just tend to be noticed more.

I personally feel a member funded community is fundamentally wrong as you should charge the people that are making money. With a member funded site, would you just let all vendors be free? If so, there would be about 10-20 times the number of active vendors making it essentially just one big advertisement with no normal member discussion. On the other side if you simply do not allow vendors, we would upset the core businesses that work with our community, there would be less interaction with the businesses that make our parts, and no deals. This all would be a disservice to the members on many levels.

Now, back on the case of this particular thread that was removed. Talking about a splitter or something custom you made is fine. The problem comes in when it appears you are promoting a product for immediate or future sales either directly as the business or by proxy where a non affiliated member is quite obviously just advertising on behalf of a business. This is on all levels from the person working out of their garage to a giant like HKS. We cannot differentiate between the two because where do we draw the line. We need to be universal in our enforcement. We also cannot differential between what is a valuable new product and something not so cutting edge as again, where do you draw the line.

On the point of it eventually being sold through a vendor, that is actually a non issue. HKS parts are sold through vendors, but if they want to come on and promote, they need to be official. Additionally, even if we did allow this to happen on the word it would be sold through a vendor, whats to stop one from promoting it to the point there is a awaiting market for it, and then not selling it through a vendor. Same thing for giving time to rectify it is there is really nothing that can be done. A thread based on a non vendor promoting a new possible product for future sale really has nothing that can be edited to make it better. One could discuss a splitter they made for themselves, but never offer it for sale (including through PMS)or discuss the business behind the product.

We have been doing this for a long time, and have come up with a set of rules that while probably not always perfect, seem to work best.

Like I said in the other thread you posted in, if you have a great product that you want to expose, we offer free press releases, and additionally, if it turns out to be good, I am sure it will be discussed by customers.

 

I submitted a vendor inquiry (not a manufacturer inquiry) just to see how much it costs. I want to not have to worry about talking about and promoting parts that are on my car.