450-500whp.. can you guys do this for a time attack car?
great feedback from all of you... I would like to understand what (kent Jordan/Mullerized) has in there car for power. Also the AMS time attack car, they list all there mods. I think picking the turbo is the easy part. Making the car run cool and be able to run the extended time I would require is the hard part.
Jbrown, I'm confused by your comments. A stroker is not better for drag racing. People use 2.0s to rev much higher and hit 150-160mph in 4th gear. The big turbos make all their power up top, so they stay in that powerband and shift extremely high.
However, on a road course, you want low-end and mid-range torque. Why would you need to rev to 8k on a road course? I personally shift close to 6k and occasionally go to 7k. A stroker would have no problem going to near 7k regularly. Was there a reason you thought it would be necessary or even recommended to rev so high when road racing?
However, on a road course, you want low-end and mid-range torque. Why would you need to rev to 8k on a road course? I personally shift close to 6k and occasionally go to 7k. A stroker would have no problem going to near 7k regularly. Was there a reason you thought it would be necessary or even recommended to rev so high when road racing?
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Jbrown, I'm confused by your comments. A stroker is not better for drag racing. People use 2.0s to rev much higher and hit 150-160mph in 4th gear. The big turbos make all their power up top, so they stay in that powerband and shift extremely high.
However, on a road course, you want low-end and mid-range torque. Why would you need to rev to 8k on a road course? I personally shift close to 6k and occasionally go to 7k. A stroker would have no problem going to near 7k regularly. Was there a reason you thought it would be necessary or even recommended to rev so high when road racing?
However, on a road course, you want low-end and mid-range torque. Why would you need to rev to 8k on a road course? I personally shift close to 6k and occasionally go to 7k. A stroker would have no problem going to near 7k regularly. Was there a reason you thought it would be necessary or even recommended to rev so high when road racing?
The 2.3 is better for drag racing because you get so much more torque to get out of the hole that you can re-gear your car (with a 4.11 final drive) to run 10's and stay in 4th and still have a big torque advantage over anyone with a 2.0.
In a drag race situation, your engine will rotate about 1,000 times during a 10 or 11-second pass. In a road race situation, your engine will rotate about 10,000 times on a single 2-minute lap (avg 5krpm). So I ask you, does it make more sense to subject your engine to Formula 1 piston speeds 1,000 times for 10 seconds, or 150,000 times on a 30-minute 15-lap race?
Originally Posted by jbrown
I guess you enjoy shifting all the time? At least on the track by me, there are several turns that if you wind out you can hold the same gear all the way through them and downshift once into the next corner instead of twice. Good for more than a few tenths, plus not having to worry about another shift to boot.
The 2.3 is better for drag racing because you get so much more torque to get out of the hole that you can re-gear your car (with a 4.11 final drive) to run 10's and stay in 4th and still have a big torque advantage over anyone with a 2.0.
In a drag race situation, your engine will rotate about 1,000 times during a 10 or 11-second pass. In a road race situation, your engine will rotate about 10,000 times on a single 2-minute lap (avg 5krpm). So I ask you, does it make more sense to subject your engine to Formula 1 piston speeds 1,000 times for 10 seconds, or 150,000 times on a 30-minute 15-lap race?
The 2.3 is better for drag racing because you get so much more torque to get out of the hole that you can re-gear your car (with a 4.11 final drive) to run 10's and stay in 4th and still have a big torque advantage over anyone with a 2.0.
In a drag race situation, your engine will rotate about 1,000 times during a 10 or 11-second pass. In a road race situation, your engine will rotate about 10,000 times on a single 2-minute lap (avg 5krpm). So I ask you, does it make more sense to subject your engine to Formula 1 piston speeds 1,000 times for 10 seconds, or 150,000 times on a 30-minute 15-lap race?
Originally Posted by Doogie Howser
AMS evo, BR evo is 2.0l....
I know this is the TurboTrix forum, but here's a snippet from the Works website. They know a thing or two about road racing. This is from their Cosworth Crate Motor page:
WORKS is proud to announce a crate engine program. Part of this program is in conjunction with Cosworth. Cosworth has been a leader in innovative engine design for over 40 years. For the first time, Cosworth is bringing their racing expertise to the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 4G63. WORKS has carefully designed three crate engines equipped with primarily Cosworth components to offer quality second to none. Our engineering and experience have led us to the following configurations which are sure to please drivers of all types:
2.0L WORKS Road Racing Engines- Designed primarily for track use where the higher RPM band is utilized more frequently. The excellent rod-to-stroke ratio sacrafices some low end torque to let this engine rev up in perfect harmony all day at the track. Also the relatively low piston speeds lets you add more RPM up top with the WORKS Brain Flash and ensures this engine will stay together track event after track event
2.2L WORKS Ultimate Rally Engines- An excellant all around engine with 10% more displacement than stock which helps spool the turbo quicker. This engine is not afraid to see high RPMs and the torquey rod-to-stroke ratio will get you out of the hole quicker. Piston speeds are very managable without fear of failure and the bulletproof billet crank will handle about as much HP as you can throw at it. Can be used on the track as well as on the street and in the dirt!
2.3L-2.4L WORKS Urban Street Engines- These engines are designed to go fast right now off-the-line! With 15% larger displacement than stock, this will spool your 4G63 quicker than just about anything out there with more torque from the relatively low rod-to-stroke ratio. For this same reason, this engine is not designed for regular track use maintaining high RPMs for extended periods of time. Also with 100mm stroke, the piston speeds approach those of Formula 1 race engines and therefore this engine carries a lower rev limit to prevent piston failure. But you may never need the higher RPMs as you're smiling from ear-to-ear from light-to-light. While perhaps the most fun of all the WORKS engines has to offer on the street, it also carries the highest risk at the track.
2.0L WORKS Road Racing Engines- Designed primarily for track use where the higher RPM band is utilized more frequently. The excellent rod-to-stroke ratio sacrafices some low end torque to let this engine rev up in perfect harmony all day at the track. Also the relatively low piston speeds lets you add more RPM up top with the WORKS Brain Flash and ensures this engine will stay together track event after track event
2.2L WORKS Ultimate Rally Engines- An excellant all around engine with 10% more displacement than stock which helps spool the turbo quicker. This engine is not afraid to see high RPMs and the torquey rod-to-stroke ratio will get you out of the hole quicker. Piston speeds are very managable without fear of failure and the bulletproof billet crank will handle about as much HP as you can throw at it. Can be used on the track as well as on the street and in the dirt!
2.3L-2.4L WORKS Urban Street Engines- These engines are designed to go fast right now off-the-line! With 15% larger displacement than stock, this will spool your 4G63 quicker than just about anything out there with more torque from the relatively low rod-to-stroke ratio. For this same reason, this engine is not designed for regular track use maintaining high RPMs for extended periods of time. Also with 100mm stroke, the piston speeds approach those of Formula 1 race engines and therefore this engine carries a lower rev limit to prevent piston failure. But you may never need the higher RPMs as you're smiling from ear-to-ear from light-to-light. While perhaps the most fun of all the WORKS engines has to offer on the street, it also carries the highest risk at the track.
Good night.
For the first time ever.....i'm going to have to agree with Warrtalon.
there is no question that a 2.0 is better suited for drag racing as it has been proven over and over again by all the large tuners and a 2.3 is better suited for road-racing/street use................
there is no question that a 2.0 is better suited for drag racing as it has been proven over and over again by all the large tuners and a 2.3 is better suited for road-racing/street use................
^2.3 IS PERFECT for anybody that takes there car on the road course, anyone that would rather rev to 8-9k on the road course is out of there mind, a 2.3 is much much much more drivable on a track(turns).
Scorke
Scorke
It's never good to mix drag racers and road racers... but lets all put our brains together and pick a setup that will stay reliable for a road race car.
I think we all agree on the 2.3L... now how about the turbo ... 50 trim?
Thanks!
I think we all agree on the 2.3L... now how about the turbo ... 50 trim?
Thanks!
GT35R kit, AMS FMIC, AMS 3” Exhaust, AMS 2.3 Liter Shortblock, AMS Small battery Kit, AMS Upper IC pipe, Tial BOV, AEM EMS engine management system, Cosworth Cylinder head, Jun 272/272 Camshafts, Walbro Fuel Pump, AMS 880 CC injectors, AMS Surge tank, AMS VSR Intake Manifold,
Here is AMS's time attack car's setup. I'll see it this weekend on track at the shootout, i think it makes 600whp
Here is AMS's time attack car's setup. I'll see it this weekend on track at the shootout, i think it makes 600whp
Originally Posted by kingkyle
It's never good to mix drag racers and road racers... but lets all put our brains together and pick a setup that will stay reliable for a road race car.
I think we all agree on the 2.3L... now how about the turbo ... 50 trim?
Thanks!
I think we all agree on the 2.3L... now how about the turbo ... 50 trim?
Thanks!
Yes, 50 trim or a GT35R if you don't mind a little more lag.......
Well... my guess is that Turbo Trix could do the job just fine. Thats why I posted in there forum. I live 45 min down the road.... so regular service on the car would be a non issue. I would actually like to hear what Turbo Trix thinks..
They don't really build road race cars like AMS it doesn't appear, but the 2.3L with GT35 or BB 50-trim should be great solutions. I personally would be happy with the 450whp/450wtq range, because I don't need 550-600whp on the road course, and I don't want to rebuild my engine.
Jbrown, I prefer to stay in one gear all the time (4th) except for when I shift to 5th on the straights. A stroker would not make me shift more than I already do.
Jbrown, I prefer to stay in one gear all the time (4th) except for when I shift to 5th on the straights. A stroker would not make me shift more than I already do.
honestly both 2.3 with 50 trim or gt35r would be good imo. but one will have certain advantages over the other. really depends on the road course. for instance, take Willow Springs big track wide open track vs their little track (called Streets of Willow). The GT35r IMO would be more beneficial on the big open course vs. the little course cause turbo lag wouldn't be as much a factor and you'd want more whp for their big straights. As for the 50 it would be much better on their small course cause spoolup would be more important vs. whp.
just compare the two by looking at them... http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/...ation/maps.asp
i'm ready to build my 9 but i'm on the fence on which turbo to go with. Speaking with Eric at AMS several times, he said the 50 would be best overall but that doesn't mean the gt35 would be crap. Don't just look at max whp, look at USABLE whp. Also look at the tracks you are gonna run on. If they are all big and wide open where you can use lots of whp, go with the gt35r. If there are a lot of twisties where low end torque is more important the top end whp, go with the 50.
I've been trying to devise a kit where i can swap the 50 and the gt35 via quick release.
haven't been too successful 
anyway good luck with whatever route you go!
just compare the two by looking at them... http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/...ation/maps.asp
i'm ready to build my 9 but i'm on the fence on which turbo to go with. Speaking with Eric at AMS several times, he said the 50 would be best overall but that doesn't mean the gt35 would be crap. Don't just look at max whp, look at USABLE whp. Also look at the tracks you are gonna run on. If they are all big and wide open where you can use lots of whp, go with the gt35r. If there are a lot of twisties where low end torque is more important the top end whp, go with the 50.
I've been trying to devise a kit where i can swap the 50 and the gt35 via quick release.
haven't been too successful anyway good luck with whatever route you go!
Originally Posted by jbrown
A 2.3L STROKER IS NOT A TIME ATTACK MOTOR!
If you want to drag race, it's absolutely the way to go. But for time attack and sustaining high revs and winding it out to 8k or more, a longer stroke is definitely not the thing to do. The piston speeds get retarded and it's a lot of stress on the whole bottom end.
If you want to drag race, it's absolutely the way to go. But for time attack and sustaining high revs and winding it out to 8k or more, a longer stroke is definitely not the thing to do. The piston speeds get retarded and it's a lot of stress on the whole bottom end.
