I've been searching the forums for the past hour and have still not run across a description of what Vishnu's Stage 1 vs. Stage 1+ is... so ... what is a stage 1+? I am looking to get his Stage 1 Signature kit and am just trying to clear up my own confusion.

 

Stage 1+ is basically like Stage 1, but with HKS 264I/272E or 272I/272E cams set at -2 or -3 and the corresponding Stage 1+ Xede map or Xflash.

 

1+ has cams.

 

Got it, thanks.

Opinion on price vs. performance if you go with the HKS cams? Seems like the stage 1 has pretty good bang for the buck and from what I can tell cams would really be the first step towards a stage 2 type upgrade (ie. bigger turbo).

l8r)

 

For $600 more, HKS cams give you 20-30whp over stage 1 and 20-30ft.lb. more torque across the range. They are a great mod even on the stock turbo.

Recommended.

 

I'm going to go against this and say that I'm waiting for the Vishnu cams. From what I've seen, its more like 15whp at the most. Also, the idle is compromised a fair amount on cammed cars. I did see my first Evo this weekend (Ryan's car) that idled very smoothly, but it was atypical of the others I've experienced. IMO, 15whp in the midrange is not worth the idle compromise.

Everyone is different, though. I recommend you ride in a cammed car before buying the cams.

 

The stage 1+ also requires a walbro 255lph fuel pump.....

 

oh.. yeah..

 

You may see only 15whp peak on the dyno but I think most who have the HKS cams will agree that the difference you feel is VERY significant.

My idle has actually gotten a lot better lately. I don't know if it's because of the warmer weather or because I reset the ECU a few days ago or whatever. My idle used to jump a few hundred rpm from time to time but now it is very stable. There is still a difference in idle from a non-cammed car but the difference is small so I think it's totally worth it. If you ever heard 272 cams untuned on a DSM you will appreciate how mild our idle really is

 

I appreciate your opinion, but we both know that butt dynos aren't the most accurate thing out there. In comparing to the 1+ cars in Dallas, there were several that were virtually identical to mine from 5500rpm to fuel cut, which is where you'll land when you upshift at redline anyway. Granted a big reason for this is because I have a cat elimination race pipe, but it makes 3/4 of the WHP of the camshafts with no sacrifice on the idle quality. Lower end torque from 3500-5500 was clearly nicer with the HKS cams, but not quite as usable when driving the car aggressively. As far as dragstrip times, Smogrunner's car at Stage 1 was very very close to his Stage 1+ times.

You have to understand that my take on this is skewed because before my Evo and WRX days, I was a Honda guy. You can put wicked cams in a VTEC powered car that make the HKS 272s look tepid, but the car has different lobes for different profiles, and you don't have to sacrifice idle quality.

If I'm going to idle like that, I'm going to put some hotter cams in the car than the HKS ones, and I'd like to have some that are hollow like the stockers. I'm not afraid to get something that will need valve springs and retainers, because my philosophy is if you're gonna upgrade, you might as well do it right. Hence, I'm waiting to see results on the Vishnu camshafts, and will hold off on the HKS units.

 

My 272's gave me about 15-20 hp more then the people w/ stage 1's. This is from my experience at a dyno day. A test pipe will give you 10hp easily.

 

butt dyno or real dyno if you had cams the power increase would be 15+ whp from 4000 to redline and even more torque in the midrange which is what you can easily feel. I'm talking about same car, same dyno, same conditions. I think Silver Surfer posted a dyno chart comparing the difference.

I'm an ex honda guy myself. What you said is true for JUN 3 VTEC cams but Toda B & C cams do not idle like stock and will give better low end and than the JUNs. As far as idle quality I would roughly equate the vtec JUNs to our HKS 264s and the vtec Todas to our HKS 272s.

agreed. I might have held out too if I knew Vishnu was making their own bumpsticks.