Fuel pump upgrade with P2
Alright, I will take you up on that offer. IHOP it is.
My concern is not the cost but since every other component on the fuel system remains stock, why a fuel pump if you are not getting bigger injectors, regulator, rail? I don't want to replace this pump if I don't have to, but everyone has an opinion. Those that changes it say get it, and those that are skeptical say don't. I don't want to mess with something that's working perfectly fine, but I want that safety margin.
My concern is not the cost but since every other component on the fuel system remains stock, why a fuel pump if you are not getting bigger injectors, regulator, rail? I don't want to replace this pump if I don't have to, but everyone has an opinion. Those that changes it say get it, and those that are skeptical say don't. I don't want to mess with something that's working perfectly fine, but I want that safety margin.
i have cams 264/272 , turbo back 3" all the way , and FMIC with the P2 , so far the car has no problems . But since i have read about it , it became a question to if i need to upgrade it or not . SOme have posted that their car run rich after installing the walbro highflow 255lph pump and they had to tune it with the SAFC (since thats what they have on their car)
As far as WORKS doing an overall FLASH , at least for my set up they custom the P2 , since they ask me what mods i had on the car and went from there . So is not an over all same program for everyone , and i was told that there was no need to upgrade to bigger injectors or pump , since boost is being set at stock (except that peak boost holds till red line )
If there would be a need for it , i was thinking of adding the SAFC with the WORKS but also it would be experimenting with it ...
As far as WORKS doing an overall FLASH , at least for my set up they custom the P2 , since they ask me what mods i had on the car and went from there . So is not an over all same program for everyone , and i was told that there was no need to upgrade to bigger injectors or pump , since boost is being set at stock (except that peak boost holds till red line )
If there would be a need for it , i was thinking of adding the SAFC with the WORKS but also it would be experimenting with it ...
Cool SinCity! 
Sorry to sound like I was on your case but the point of my long wags was more that experience has been a good teacher. Heck man you’re starting to sound old school like me, if it’s not broke don’t fix it! 
I certainly agree with everything else your saying, without cams, injectors, fuel rail, etc. why do it.
Pumps of all types have a similar characteristic or problem if you will when not sized properly for the system they are supplying, inefficiency. Too small and the problem is easy to understand, starvation, the pumps working at maximum and the system doesn’t have enough of what it needs to perform. Go to big and the pump is cruisin’ but the system it supplies is being flooded (in our cases) with too much fuel (too rich for us) and wastes it, not really producing maximum output, HP, and other problems like washing away too much oil from the cylinder walls and not allowing rings to seat or wear properly (sound familiar).
Over here in Cali my job is to see to that the water that comes from the big beautiful Hoover Dam is used efficiently. We size pumps to move water through pipes as big as 120” in diameter. At that size it takes groups of pumps (each one putting out more HP than our Evos) that are sized with the same ideas in mind, first determine the demand and then pick pumps that will work the most efficiently, not to big, not to small, they have to be just right or they don’t last very long. Pump manufacturers supply us with curves that look like dyno sheets (based on demand) they show us HP and efficiency curves in-lieu of torque.
I think Goku is approaching that threshold. A pump designer will always leave a little extra as a cushion or “margin of safety”. As we make our engine mods we start to creep into that safety zone, but at some point we end up using up that little extra and create a condition like I mentioned above, pump is max’d out, system isn’t getting enough of what it needs.
With the mods Goku has made that cushion is now very small (or maybe even used up) and as you’ve said before, his insurance policy may need to be increased. A pump working at 100% all the time is not a desirable condition.
I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if at some point in the future as WORKS develops more and more power through additional components like turbo kits and whatnot that they too will recommend a pump upgrade.
Rick
Sorry to sound like I was on your case but the point of my long wags was more that experience has been a good teacher. Heck man you’re starting to sound old school like me, if it’s not broke don’t fix it! I certainly agree with everything else your saying, without cams, injectors, fuel rail, etc. why do it. Pumps of all types have a similar characteristic or problem if you will when not sized properly for the system they are supplying, inefficiency. Too small and the problem is easy to understand, starvation, the pumps working at maximum and the system doesn’t have enough of what it needs to perform. Go to big and the pump is cruisin’ but the system it supplies is being flooded (in our cases) with too much fuel (too rich for us) and wastes it, not really producing maximum output, HP, and other problems like washing away too much oil from the cylinder walls and not allowing rings to seat or wear properly (sound familiar).
Over here in Cali my job is to see to that the water that comes from the big beautiful Hoover Dam is used efficiently. We size pumps to move water through pipes as big as 120” in diameter. At that size it takes groups of pumps (each one putting out more HP than our Evos) that are sized with the same ideas in mind, first determine the demand and then pick pumps that will work the most efficiently, not to big, not to small, they have to be just right or they don’t last very long. Pump manufacturers supply us with curves that look like dyno sheets (based on demand) they show us HP and efficiency curves in-lieu of torque.
I think Goku is approaching that threshold. A pump designer will always leave a little extra as a cushion or “margin of safety”. As we make our engine mods we start to creep into that safety zone, but at some point we end up using up that little extra and create a condition like I mentioned above, pump is max’d out, system isn’t getting enough of what it needs.
With the mods Goku has made that cushion is now very small (or maybe even used up) and as you’ve said before, his insurance policy may need to be increased. A pump working at 100% all the time is not a desirable condition.
I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if at some point in the future as WORKS develops more and more power through additional components like turbo kits and whatnot that they too will recommend a pump upgrade.
Rick
Last edited by BatEvo; Mar 16, 2004 at 07:55 AM.
See, what I am hearing is that it's not that the pump is not strong enough or flows enough, it's that during full boost pulls, summer heat under load conditions, the stock pump suddenly drops output and goes lean without you even knowing it even with very few mods. This has been seen during dyno tuning on a few occasions. The Walbro pump is more reliable and pumps plenty of fuel when taxed so there is no chance of starvation. But the drawbacks are more fuel pressure and rich conditions when in boost and some say noise when pumping. I will keep my stock pump for now.
i understand the pump works well enpugh on stock settings , but also im sure works there running cams, turbo back , p2 and the difference would be the FMIC upgrade ...
and close to that they have not seen anyproblems with it . but will a SAFC solve the problem with the upgrade of the pump runing to rich ??? in top of the P2 ??
and close to that they have not seen anyproblems with it . but will a SAFC solve the problem with the upgrade of the pump runing to rich ??? in top of the P2 ??
most likely i will have the car dyno with air/fuel readings , after that i will have the 720cc with the pump install and the SAFC and have Road Race engineering tune it .which im sure they have a wide 02 band .... to be able to bump the boost at the track to 21psi running different octane of course ....
