Ecu boost control (solenoids "?")
Sep 17, 2008, 05:13 AM
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Ecu boost control (solenoids "?")
Ok, some of you guys have been running either load or direct boost control for some time now. Using everything from the stock solenoid, stock and different pills. The GM 3 port, mac valves... perrin, tactrix, aem, haltech...
I've seen people using just about all of these, some of which are the same.
I do not have experience using the stock ecu for boost control. But figured I'd give it a roll since at some point I'd like to move to a map switching rom. I've read the threads. So which solenoid is it? Which is the best? Which is the easiest to tune?
Which will allow me to hold the most boost? I'm not running the stock turbo. And I'm not running an internal waste gate. I'll be happy with pegging the JDM map sensor for now. But if I need to draw more out of it later I would like to be able to do it.
GM 3 port ok?
Just out of curiosity is anyone familiar with this solenoid?
http://www.labontemotorsports.com/st...ow/BBK-20.html
The other option is using Maft Pro for boost control. I believe it uses a familiar looking solenoid as well...
050highboost (url is too long to link) This is the p/n. Looks like a 3 port similar to the perrin.
Will this one work with the stock ecu as well? (That way I can run it either way) if it works better one way or another?
Thoughts gentlemen?
I've seen people using just about all of these, some of which are the same.
I do not have experience using the stock ecu for boost control. But figured I'd give it a roll since at some point I'd like to move to a map switching rom. I've read the threads. So which solenoid is it? Which is the best? Which is the easiest to tune?
Which will allow me to hold the most boost? I'm not running the stock turbo. And I'm not running an internal waste gate. I'll be happy with pegging the JDM map sensor for now. But if I need to draw more out of it later I would like to be able to do it.
GM 3 port ok?
Just out of curiosity is anyone familiar with this solenoid?
http://www.labontemotorsports.com/st...ow/BBK-20.html
The other option is using Maft Pro for boost control. I believe it uses a familiar looking solenoid as well...
050highboost (url is too long to link) This is the p/n. Looks like a 3 port similar to the perrin.
Will this one work with the stock ecu as well? (That way I can run it either way) if it works better one way or another?
Thoughts gentlemen?
Sep 17, 2008, 05:46 AM
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http://www.gruppe-s.com/Evo/evoeng.htm
Scroll down the page and look for Gruppe-S Boost Control Solenoid
$99. Like the Prodrive unit.
Scroll down the page and look for Gruppe-S Boost Control Solenoid
$99. Like the Prodrive unit.
Sep 17, 2008, 06:27 AM
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GM 3port works fine and its inexpensive.....been running it for quite a few months and its rock solid, very easy to tune. I don't think I will ever go back to an mbc ever again....
rockauto seems to have the best price on the GM unit
rockauto seems to have the best price on the GM unit
Sep 17, 2008, 11:23 AM
#6
http://evoecu.logic.net/wiki/3_Port_...you_will_need:
Someone should add the grouppe-s to that list with a note that it is the defunct tactrix solenoid.
All of the 3-ports will basically work the same. Downsides to the GM are some people say it sounds like a mini machine gun. Most are not PNP but making a connector is easy (see link) and you "need" (questionably) a resistor for some of them.
Someone should add the grouppe-s to that list with a note that it is the defunct tactrix solenoid.
All of the 3-ports will basically work the same. Downsides to the GM are some people say it sounds like a mini machine gun. Most are not PNP but making a connector is easy (see link) and you "need" (questionably) a resistor for some of them.
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Sep 17, 2008, 01:24 PM
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MAC valve. AEM uses the same thing as do a bunch of other companies.
It is cheap ~$20 and MUCH HIGHER QUALITY than the GM valve. I have used both and had a GM solenoid fail after a year or so. The MAC is going strong after a year of use.
It has screw in fittings so you can set it up however you like. It also comes with many different style connectors depending on what you order.
As far as which works best....I really think they all work the same. I just like that the mac is all metal and more solid than the GM valve.
It is cheap ~$20 and MUCH HIGHER QUALITY than the GM valve. I have used both and had a GM solenoid fail after a year or so. The MAC is going strong after a year of use.
It has screw in fittings so you can set it up however you like. It also comes with many different style connectors depending on what you order.
As far as which works best....I really think they all work the same. I just like that the mac is all metal and more solid than the GM valve.
Sep 17, 2008, 03:11 PM
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http://evoecu.logic.net/wiki/3_Port_...you_will_need:
Someone should add the grouppe-s to that list with a note that it is the defunct tactrix solenoid.
All of the 3-ports will basically work the same. Downsides to the GM are some people say it sounds like a mini machine gun. Most are not PNP but making a connector is easy (see link) and you "need" (questionably) a resistor for some of them.
Someone should add the grouppe-s to that list with a note that it is the defunct tactrix solenoid.
All of the 3-ports will basically work the same. Downsides to the GM are some people say it sounds like a mini machine gun. Most are not PNP but making a connector is easy (see link) and you "need" (questionably) a resistor for some of them.
I'm not really worried about making a connector. I'm sure I could whip something up. I have 5 Mitsu's sitting here in various states of (dis)repair at any given moment. All but the Evo have had AC removed so the connector should be easy to come by. If anything I'll just whack the stock plug off and wire up the GM one. I have no problem with that at all. I'm looking for variances in (the method of actuation) speed, durability. And limit of boost holding capacity. And any personal preferences for tuning. From what I can see the Perrin solenoid, and the Full Throttle solenoid are the same. Same casing, and layout, just different colors.
The Tactrix, Gruppe-S, and Prodrive unit is the same.
The AEM, and Haltech are the same unit.
Dudical26 I have a tendency to agree with your line of thinking. I would prefer to use fittings that match the TiAl 44mm - prefer metal where I can have it, and always lean towards things that at least appear to be heavier duty.
Link me to the mac valve you are using if you wouldn't mind?
I just figured with the gaining popularity of the ecu based boost control - with already tons of people using it. And so many different ways to do it. I'd kick around a thread with all the various solenoids people are using and what their experience / opinions were.
How about we switch it to this format:
-turbo
-internal / external wastegate
-solenoid / pill if applicable / how you have it plumbed
-boost you run / or curve
-experience / opinion / problems
Everyone cool with that?
On a side note, I know some people were using a bleeder as well? I think Mrfred was. How many of you are using a MBC too, or more than one solenoid etc, or a bleeder of some variety?
I know a lot of this is in the threads, and I have read them. Just figured it wouldn't be a bad idea to just have a brief comparison on just the hardware portion.
Sep 17, 2008, 04:52 PM
#12
I've used and tuned these solenoids:
Stock with upgraded pill
GM 3port
Perrin 3port
MAC valve 3 port (AEM, etc)
Apexi 3 port
With these type of turbos:
Stock
FP series (green, WR, etc)
GT30/35R
50 trim
PT6262
20 psi to 35 psi
With internal (stock and FP) and external WGA's
All the 3 ports work and perform basically the same.
GM is the cheapest, MAC's seem built the best.
I've had 2 GM failures out of probably 60+ installed. I think they just ended up being bad solenoids as we run GM 3ports in SCCA Time Trial and Time Attack evos that see extreme heat and have never had a failure yet with them.
In the end, pick the 3port that makes you feel the best.
I would highly recommend a 3port when using a larger turbo and external wastegate over using the stock solenoid.
Stock with upgraded pill
GM 3port
Perrin 3port
MAC valve 3 port (AEM, etc)
Apexi 3 port
With these type of turbos:
Stock
FP series (green, WR, etc)
GT30/35R
50 trim
PT6262
20 psi to 35 psi
With internal (stock and FP) and external WGA's
All the 3 ports work and perform basically the same.
GM is the cheapest, MAC's seem built the best.
I've had 2 GM failures out of probably 60+ installed. I think they just ended up being bad solenoids as we run GM 3ports in SCCA Time Trial and Time Attack evos that see extreme heat and have never had a failure yet with them.
In the end, pick the 3port that makes you feel the best.
I would highly recommend a 3port when using a larger turbo and external wastegate over using the stock solenoid.
Sep 17, 2008, 05:35 PM
#13
Dustin - as far as boost goes using a 3port is MUCH better than stock.
I have had some minor troubles with it, however we are trying to work through them.
Mainly - overshoot in higher gears, its basically a tradeoff (fast spool in lower gears vs overshoot in higher gears).
I recently modified my BWGDC map to look like:
However it is harder to tune - perhaps if I made it mainstream then other (read better tuners) would be able to make it work.
I have had some minor troubles with it, however we are trying to work through them.
Mainly - overshoot in higher gears, its basically a tradeoff (fast spool in lower gears vs overshoot in higher gears).
I recently modified my BWGDC map to look like:
However it is harder to tune - perhaps if I made it mainstream then other (read better tuners) would be able to make it work.
Sep 17, 2008, 06:32 PM
#15
Well I have been thinking about 3d tables for boost for a long while, but a conversation with MrFred inspired me to give it a whirl.
As you can see from the above table we have MAP on 1 axis - so basically we can control the WGDC based on MAP as well.
One of the nice side affects is we can specific 100% WGDC while the turbo is spooling - as you can see 20psi is when my WG starts to open. This *should* in practice make the turbo spool faster but I am not sure if it does much in reality.
As you can see from the above table we have MAP on 1 axis - so basically we can control the WGDC based on MAP as well.
One of the nice side affects is we can specific 100% WGDC while the turbo is spooling - as you can see 20psi is when my WG starts to open. This *should* in practice make the turbo spool faster but I am not sure if it does much in reality.