Ecu boost control (solenoids "?")
Sep 17, 2008, 06:51 PM
#17
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David you sneaky little monkey...
That looks reminiscent of a utec or emanage map. I can see you holding out on us, but Bryan would be the guy to shake the bugs out of an ecu based boost toy. I'd hand it over to him.
Or he might pop an artery. 
Overshoot doesn't scare me. Its still rich, timing is conservative, and knock is not happening. I'm not blowing the spark out even on the largest meth nozzle I can get my hands on and 30psi. Which is still my target I'd like to tune around.
Bryan do you still run the solenoid like a mbc on the EX WG setups? One line to the lower nipple on the WG? And nothing on the top? I saw Touring Bubble try it another way when he said it wasn't working that way.
Right now I'm on a 44mm TiAl and Hallman Pro. I just want whatever is going to work, and be able to switch when I opt for one of David's map switching roms.
The pills etc is what made me ignore the ecu based boost control from its inception. I won't use the stock solenoid. Never even contemplated it.
That looks reminiscent of a utec or emanage map. I can see you holding out on us, but Bryan would be the guy to shake the bugs out of an ecu based boost toy. I'd hand it over to him.
Or he might pop an artery. Overshoot doesn't scare me. Its still rich, timing is conservative, and knock is not happening. I'm not blowing the spark out even on the largest meth nozzle I can get my hands on and 30psi. Which is still my target I'd like to tune around.
Bryan do you still run the solenoid like a mbc on the EX WG setups? One line to the lower nipple on the WG? And nothing on the top? I saw Touring Bubble try it another way when he said it wasn't working that way.
Right now I'm on a 44mm TiAl and Hallman Pro. I just want whatever is going to work, and be able to switch when I opt for one of David's map switching roms.
The pills etc is what made me ignore the ecu based boost control from its inception. I won't use the stock solenoid. Never even contemplated it.
Last edited by Asmodeus6; Sep 17, 2008 at 06:57 PM.
Sep 17, 2008, 07:28 PM
#18
As I am sure you know, the big advantage of ECU-boost is the per RPM boost control, over a MBC.
Today I had to bring boost down up top on a E85 Evo as it was maxing the current fuel system with higher boost up top. However I was able to retain the higher boost in the low and midrange, keeping the torque up. With a MBC you would lose out on both ends.
Come over to the ECU-boost side, we have cookies.
Sep 17, 2008, 07:49 PM
#19
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I run an untapped line from the manifold to the mbc. Then to the WG.
I prefer to keep my bc and bov separate and untapped always.
Fine, pick which solenoid I'm running and I'll order it tomorrow. I'm leaning towards the Full throttle one as it will work with Pro if the ecu based boost doesn't work out as planned.
I know they have a tps based spool mode on it as well. I don't know if its method is superior or inferior - as I have not used either yet.
I prefer to keep my bc and bov separate and untapped always.
Fine, pick which solenoid I'm running and I'll order it tomorrow. I'm leaning towards the Full throttle one as it will work with Pro if the ecu based boost doesn't work out as planned.
I know they have a tps based spool mode on it as well. I don't know if its method is superior or inferior - as I have not used either yet.
Last edited by Asmodeus6; Sep 17, 2008 at 07:54 PM.
Sep 17, 2008, 11:02 PM
#21
Well I have been thinking about 3d tables for boost for a long while, but a conversation with MrFred inspired me to give it a whirl.
As you can see from the above table we have MAP on 1 axis - so basically we can control the WGDC based on MAP as well.
One of the nice side affects is we can specific 100% WGDC while the turbo is spooling - as you can see 20psi is when my WG starts to open. This *should* in practice make the turbo spool faster but I am not sure if it does much in reality.
As you can see from the above table we have MAP on 1 axis - so basically we can control the WGDC based on MAP as well.
One of the nice side affects is we can specific 100% WGDC while the turbo is spooling - as you can see 20psi is when my WG starts to open. This *should* in practice make the turbo spool faster but I am not sure if it does much in reality.
.
Sep 18, 2008, 08:28 AM
#22
I really do like the mac (AEM) valve, see the link I posted for the 2 part numbers (they are basically the same, one has an extra connector and status LED)
Tephra, your are so holding out on us! Since my E85 tune I worried a bit less about the spike. I'm hitting 28.8 sometimes in 4th and 5th (aiming for 27 peak), but no knock from it! If I had Tephra's table I might be able to get things tuned a bit better, though I don't know how that jives with direct boost control. Seems like they would fight eachother.
Some people complain about the GMs making noise, others don't hear it. Since it seems the mac valve is just as cheap I'd rock it, metal fittings are nice too.
I'm running stock turbo, internal, j-pipe to AEM/MAC (stock location) and straight to WG, bleeding off the solenoid bleed but thinking about re-plumbing that.
Experience has been great so far, but yeah... spoolup in 1-3 is difficult on pump if you don't want to spike 5th. On pump I see ~20psi at ~3300RPM 3rd, and ~2750 in 5th... so trying to tune for the best spool in 3rd resulted in 25.5psi spikes in 5th. E85 seems to have removed any issues with spike though. I can post some logs of the JDM Map if you want to see curves.
Tephra, your are so holding out on us!
Since my E85 tune I worried a bit less about the spike. I'm hitting 28.8 sometimes in 4th and 5th (aiming for 27 peak), but no knock from it! If I had Tephra's table I might be able to get things tuned a bit better, though I don't know how that jives with direct boost control. Seems like they would fight eachother.Some people complain about the GMs making noise, others don't hear it. Since it seems the mac valve is just as cheap I'd rock it, metal fittings are nice too.
I'm running stock turbo, internal, j-pipe to AEM/MAC (stock location) and straight to WG, bleeding off the solenoid bleed but thinking about re-plumbing that.
Experience has been great so far, but yeah... spoolup in 1-3 is difficult on pump if you don't want to spike 5th. On pump I see ~20psi at ~3300RPM 3rd, and ~2750 in 5th... so trying to tune for the best spool in 3rd resulted in 25.5psi spikes in 5th. E85 seems to have removed any issues with spike though
. I can post some logs of the JDM Map if you want to see curves.
Last edited by fostytou; Sep 18, 2008 at 08:35 AM.
Sep 18, 2008, 07:23 PM
#23
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No that's good. Meth Inj keeps me from worrying about spikes. I am having no problems with knock whatsoever at 30psi. If it spiked / or overshot to 32 psi in 4th and 34psi in 5th. So be it. I have the biggest nozzle in there and its not blowing out spark, or knocking at all anywhere. So like you, bring on the boost. As of yet I'm not having problems with more of it.
Sep 18, 2008, 07:32 PM
#24
After installing a LICP and catback to compliment the DP and HFC I spiked 28-29psi. The weather drops about 20-25* at night now so that also didnt help. No knock. Warning alarm went off on the boost gauge so i let off immediately. Car continued to overboost about 2-3psi so i flashed like 5% less baseline WGDC. Correction did kick in if i kept in it.
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