E-Spec tests the MAP Ef4 --- 600hp @30psi!!
#16
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proof of what? that its still proving to be a lazy turbo in the spool department?
hasnt proved anything yet to me. yeah its making 300tq by 3800. thats good. but next you have to look how long it takes to make 500tq. what that translates to when you drive the car is very laggy turbo.
call me the biggest hater on the board wont effect my observations one bit. I will still recommend other choices for those who come to me for advice. sorry I am just a straight shooter looking to help others enjoy the hobby as much as I do.
hasnt proved anything yet to me. yeah its making 300tq by 3800. thats good. but next you have to look how long it takes to make 500tq. what that translates to when you drive the car is very laggy turbo.
call me the biggest hater on the board wont effect my observations one bit. I will still recommend other choices for those who come to me for advice. sorry I am just a straight shooter looking to help others enjoy the hobby as much as I do.
Last edited by CurseDSM; Nov 21, 2011 at 06:00 AM.
#19
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I respect your opinion as an individual, but also value your opinion based on experience. Take it from me, I've been running 67mm turbos since 2005-- I love the rush of a big laggy turbo, so maybe my opinion generally sways towards the right of a power curve. It seems to me you favor the left side. I find this turbo to be a good middle ground for what we both enjoy.
Please post a graph for what you consider a 'responsive' turbo. I'd like to get these graphs together and examine the 2 for the pros/cons.
Again, this is not intended to be a classic 'evom battle royale',,, just good information from 2 evo enthusiasts that can maybe help newbs towards making educated decisions.
#20
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I found a VD post of a stroker on e85 and BB FP Black and it hits peak torque (around 500ftlbs) and just shy of what this EF4 is hitting at. So, I am very interested in hearing of what turbo you are referring to that makes 600whp and isn't "laggy".
#21
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Just remember that I sold a perfectly good brand new FP Black for this turbo for several reasons other than just spool. Haters may think I am just plain stupid and the newbies are still watching on how this plays out. I just wanted to try something different and I have no regrets. It is just nice to have more choices in the market for stock replacement turbos. I think that is a win for everyone in my book.
Enough said... lets move on with the discussion. Lets keep it civil
Last edited by cul8tr; Nov 21, 2011 at 06:54 AM.
#22
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I don't know and I am interested to hear about what turbo he is talking about but lets compair apples to apples. This is a stock frame turbo, not a t3 or t4. Maybe he is tring to compair turbos with different platforms and the ef4 makes it seem laggy being he has a better flowing hotside. Who knows
#23
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I opened a can of worms, you see?
I too also find 94awdcoupe to be a wealth of accurate info, but considering the S3's, I too cant say I consider this laggy.
Compared to my FP Black with S2's on the 2.4, I definitely notice a little more lag. But, Im on a base map right now and the turbo still hits hard and pulls very hard all the way up the RPM range with S3's. This turbo with some S2's would definitely hit harder for sure.
I too also find 94awdcoupe to be a wealth of accurate info, but considering the S3's, I too cant say I consider this laggy.
Compared to my FP Black with S2's on the 2.4, I definitely notice a little more lag. But, Im on a base map right now and the turbo still hits hard and pulls very hard all the way up the RPM range with S3's. This turbo with some S2's would definitely hit harder for sure.
#24
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I don't know and I am interested to hear about what turbo he is talking about but lets compair apples to apples. This is a stock frame turbo, not a t3 or t4. Maybe he is tring to compair turbos with different platforms and the ef4 makes it seem laggy being he has a better flowing hotside. Who knows
#25
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Just some "fun facts" about this test vehicle in order to put the spool-up into perspective.......
A-) This is a 2.4l motor. This assists spool tremendously.
B-) This motor has a Magnus intake manifold--- this works against spool but helps upper rpm.
C-) This motor has s3 cams --- this works against spool but helps upper rpm.
D-) The cams were dialed in to fight the "fall off" that I see in so many 2.4l applications --- this works against spool but helps upper rpm.
E-) This is a shep tranny with 4.11 final drive --- Loads the motor more in 3rd and assists spool-up
Basically, what I would love to see is spool-up on a stock 2l motor with some 272's , a standard 5 speed transmission, and a stock ported im and stock tb. That would be a good "control" car to examine this turbo's spool-up characteristics vs other units.
At some point we have to realize that this stock frame turbo made 600hp at 30psi. What are evo owners willing to give up to obtain that? 500rpm? 800rpm? 1000rpm?
Open for discussion.
A-) This is a 2.4l motor. This assists spool tremendously.
B-) This motor has a Magnus intake manifold--- this works against spool but helps upper rpm.
C-) This motor has s3 cams --- this works against spool but helps upper rpm.
D-) The cams were dialed in to fight the "fall off" that I see in so many 2.4l applications --- this works against spool but helps upper rpm.
E-) This is a shep tranny with 4.11 final drive --- Loads the motor more in 3rd and assists spool-up
Basically, what I would love to see is spool-up on a stock 2l motor with some 272's , a standard 5 speed transmission, and a stock ported im and stock tb. That would be a good "control" car to examine this turbo's spool-up characteristics vs other units.
At some point we have to realize that this stock frame turbo made 600hp at 30psi. What are evo owners willing to give up to obtain that? 500rpm? 800rpm? 1000rpm?
Open for discussion.
#26
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I drive one on a 2 liter and I don't think its all that laggy at all. I mean 3800 rpms for 300 tq and about 2000 rpms for 500 ft lbs of tq i don't really see it being that bad. I make 300 tq at about 4200 rpms 443 tq at about 5633 rpms and I started the pull at 3k. That isn't to bad at all and when you drive the car even on a 2.0 it really doesn't seem laggy at all unless your starting from 1000 rpms per pull. Like someone suggested what turbo are you compairing to this because I would like to know as well?
#27
Evolved Member
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Ill agree with that ^ for sure, that's rather laggy..not 6765 laggy, but still all things considered. These stock frame turbos, especially the "bigger" ones really need the bigger displacement motors for them to fully make sense. 2.3 or 2.4 is the way to go on them. My Black made peak torque of 550 on Buschur's Mustang Dyno at around 4500rpms, but that was with S2's.
I wish I had S3's then to make a more accurate comparison for myself between the Black and EF4, it would have lost a few hundred rpm's.
I wish I had S3's then to make a more accurate comparison for myself between the Black and EF4, it would have lost a few hundred rpm's.
#28
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the bold above pretty much defines why I call this turbo laggy. look around at other graphs and see 150-200tq increases in a 500rpm. this turbo doesnt hit hard. I would like to give more information but I dont know how big this turbo actually is. I only know whats been posted that its bigger than a black.
#29
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Basically, what I would love to see is spool-up on a stock 2l motor with some 272's , a standard 5 speed transmission, and a stock ported im and stock tb. That would be a good "control" car to examine this turbo's spool-up characteristics vs other units.
At some point we have to realize that this stock frame turbo made 600hp at 30psi. What are evo owners willing to give up to obtain that? 500rpm? 800rpm? 1000rpm?
Open for discussion.
At some point we have to realize that this stock frame turbo made 600hp at 30psi. What are evo owners willing to give up to obtain that? 500rpm? 800rpm? 1000rpm?
Open for discussion.
Here is my build thread of what my car has in it hope this helps you some.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...usa-tuned.html
Last edited by CurseDSM; Nov 21, 2011 at 07:54 AM.