migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

Ok if you look in the manual ? (cd repair whatever) you can find a whole section on emmisions . At the end thespecs of our emmisions system. As my goal is 250 N/A raw power I will need some help. My exhaust is a 2.5 cat back with a HF cat 2.5 inch and a resonator and a 3 chamber muffler so I am pretty much running a higher diameter but keeping emmisions in its place. There has been a debate on lots of threads about the EGR elimination and stuff. People claim is good for the engine( i honestly don't know how a bunch of carbon deposits in the intake manifold and extra heat oon it will help) but whatever I will delete it. It is supposed to recirculate Exhaust gases from the last cylinder into the intake to eliminate Nox particles and stuff that the stock cat is supposed to do. By eliminating it you will gain LOWER INTAKE MANIFOLD TEMPERATURES (+HP) and less CARBON BUILD UP ON THE VALVES AND INTAKE MANIFOLD (again + HP). You all guys know where the EGR is in our cars (located on the 4th cylinder intake runner on the intake manifold).

Things you will need :
1- EGR-block off plate (evo block off fits)
2- EGR gasket (OEM)

now there are some drawbacks as always
by removing the actuator you will throw a CEL. Lucky for you I might have a solution for it.
When you are at WOT the valve does not works and either on idle it actuates then cruising and mostly when you are on CLOSED LOOP. You can remove the actuator completely and place a 5 watt resistor in place of it. ( I am researching this and might need some help here) the stock resistance of the valve actuator is 20-24 omhs @ 68 Farenheit we can make a special connector that will connect to the OEM plug and cheat the stock ECU and therefore EGR eliminated I am still not sure about this I already tried it on a EVO but need some tips from you guys about the size of the resistor (in whatever measure it is).

Remember by removing the EGR lower intake temperatures will reduce a LOT and also this leads to less detonation and stuff..

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

Here is the plate I am using in case somebody else wants to do this.
EGRBLOCKOFF

I forgot to mention that you can also leave the EGR stepper motor hanging around the intake manifold and put the blockoff plate but its not practical.... But at least you wont have the CEL

DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

assuming you have the service manual, there are six pins and four ways it expects to read that resistance. Do you have any idea what pins do what, and which you have to short? It seems like it would be easier to just modify the valve itself so you can use the adapter plate with it. Do you need to block the EGR feed line somehow?

For anyone who is considering this keep in mind this will increase your emissions. This particular mod IS against US law, because you are defeating your emissions system. You may throw a check engine light, depending upon how high your NOx levels increase.

Again: illegal in the United States. Same as running catless.

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

I am looking at the manual and yes I am aware it was 6 pins that's why I need the help of the experienced electronics guys like you I am reading the manual trying to understan what each pin does and how its related to the CEL

Ok so as for now Dan if you are looking at the manual it seems terminals 2 and 5 use positive current from the ECU and all others are negatives. That's polarity now we need to find out how they relate to the ECU

drewbad

Unless this system has some sort of feedback signal such as an egr position sensor, I am assuming that 1 pin is ground and the others are "step control". When you control a stepper motor, each pin needs to be pulsed sequentially. There is usually some spike protection circuitry such as diodes to protect against eddy buildup in the coil of the motor. ~ It's the same principal of turning on a light, which is a coil. A large surge of current will occur in the properties of energizing an inductor (coil). That is why your incandescent light will only blow when turning it on. It's essentially, in this case, 5 coils on the motor with common ground. (again, this is speculation. )
Even though the manifold will be cooler, will the piston chamber run slightly hotter? Curious indeed. I dont think there will be sperate resistances, but I've been wrong before. Perhaps continuities. Maybe it would be logical to rip out the pintle, block the bung, and leave the unit in place?

Dan has an excellent point which I agree with. Legally ill. However, ethically thinking, wouldnt a high-flo cat neutralize anything that makes it's way through the system? Just a few thoughts...

Drew

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

Ok heres the layout and the pic layout for those who doesnot have the manual

So far I know that pins 2 and 5 receive positive and all others have negative.

Also 1,2,3 work as a group and 4,5,6 another group



BTW: I know this might affect emmisions but since the EGR only works in cruising there will be no problems in emmision tests. Also I do believe there will be a SLIGHT increase on COMBUSTION TEMPS this is PROBABLY but again I live in PR and honestly INTAKE TEMPS matters MORE.

DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

it would, but it would shorten the life of the cat.

I thought that was a much better idea, prevent the valve from functioning with the adapter. Even if you have to modify the sensor itself, but I think a different block adapter would make more sense.

be wary of my mspaint skilz yo.



I am thinking COMBUSTION temps going up not really an issue, the heat transfer increase should be negligible, especially when you are considering lowered intake temps. The EGR systems primary function is emissions, not cooling.

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

You are right Dan, so instead of finding a way to cheat the stock ECU we should cheat the valve MECHANICALLY so that it still moves but because of the block off plate, the flow wont move to the intake.

Some thoughts:

The valve has two controls maybe one of them for example is the ECU signal to open and the other is the feedback signal of the fluttering, that's why maybe it has two grounds per each positive. The only way to proove this method of mechanically cheating is actually testing it...

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

NOW I THINK THIS EXPLAINS IT ALL PLEASE READ CAREFULLY I KNOW ITS FROM HONDAS ;

With Honda's PGM-FI fuel injection, it is now possible to monitor EGR valve lifts. If the ECM does not see the EGR lift during expected EGR operation, it will turn on the “Check Engine” light for code 12 on pre-OBD-II vehicles. The lift values are programmed into the ECM for the different engine loads and drive cycles. When diagnosing a Honda EGR system it is always good to remember the basics - so let's look at the basics of code 12.

A lift sensor on top of the EGR valve works just like a TPS sensor. There are three wires: a signal wire (yellow or white/blue) that goes back to the ECM, a 5-volt reference wire and a ground wire. With the EGR valve closed, the voltage should be about 1.2 volts. Normally anything more than 1.4 volts will set the light because the ECM thinks the EGR valve is open when it should not be. The voltage will increase as the valve opens. The ECM watches the voltage and then compares it to the predetermined values set in the programming of the ECM. The EGR is lifted by engine vacuum and the ECM has a solenoid it grounds when it commands EGR operation. The ECM will ground this solenoid when it sees the correct engine temperature, correct MAP sensor voltage, and throttle position sensor voltage. With the solenoid, the constant vacuum control (CVC) valve controls a constant vacuum for EGR operation. This valve takes the manifold vacuum signal and puts it to a constant 8 to 10 inches. Without a constant vacuum signal, EGR operation would be erratic. The EGR solenoid and the CVC valve location varies by model, but are often found in the black emission boxes under the hood on the fire wall. To locate, use a component locator or just follow the vacuum line.


So far I have learned that in this HONDA case their EGR has three WIRES only that controls the valve. positive and negative to open and signal (same as ours) but why our have two sets of 3 6 pins . I believe the second set states the vacuum condition. Honda valves open and close with vacuum. Maybe the second set of three pins on our EGR is a electronic vacuum related lift of the valve.....

KreepaEvoX

The engine runs actually hotter at the chamber if you do this, EGT raises considerably when you do this, take it into consideration....and beleive it or not the recirculation COOLS the chamber more so than just direct air

There are pros and cons, but if your making it a MAF, what the hell, knock yourself out

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

What the hell are you talking about ? Building it a MAF?

egk-69

ok, ok , ok, WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!

every body STOP!!

I see you said the EGR only work on cruising, and you want to improve the performance of your car by eliminating it

what improvements will be eliminating it, if the car doesnt use it wile your beatting the heck out of the car????????

if the car only use it while cruising, you wont see any improvements by eliminating it, well maybe cruising, hehe

I dont know, explain!!!! hehehe

migueralliart

iTrader: (10)

If you cruise the **** valve is open and it heats your intake manifold, when you are at 40mph cruising and then an ******* approaches and you shift to a stonger gear you will suck all that heat and the manifold itself will be hotter.

DarkMastyr

KreepaEvoX is right. The EGR system recirculates exhaust gas in order to buffer your combustion chamber so that overall temperature in the chamber is kept low. NOx formation occurs above 2200K flame temperatures, and EGR keeps this down. If you eliminate EGR, you significantly increase temperatures in your combustion chamber and thus your exhaust gas, thereby increasing wear on all of those components.

Before anyone starts going ***** nilly and eliminating critical aspects of the engine that are universally accepted by engineers throughout the world who have thought about this way more than you have, think about why they implemented this system and what tradeoffs you're incurring when you start changing it.

KreepaEvoX

I meant MAP

.....YO GANE!!!!