I was just wondering which of these upgrades would be most Beneficial , I'm looking at one of 3 items and just wondering which would be the best to go with.

1) Header/downpipe (RRM)
2) Stage 1 or 2 cam (RRM)
3) Piggyback ecu (RRM)

Current engine mods, Injen CAI, UD Pully & Custom Catback exhaust.

The only problem I may have is getting the piggy tuned, the closest Dyno to me is 8 1/2 hours away that will do tuning and I have no clue on how to do it myself. So i really don't want to mess it up. But with my mods i currently have i'm not sure if the base tune would work. It gets pretty cold here in the winter and can get pretty hot in the summer.

Suggestions would be great

Thanks

 

base tune on rrm piggy is set up for rrm cai, rrm udp, and rrm axleback exhuast, so seeing as how your current mods are very similar to the base tune, I'd say the piggy would be 1st, stage 2 cam 2nd, and header/downpipe 3rd,

strictly in a hp gained per dollars spent ratio that is.

 

Base tune on the piggy is also set up for SoCal's nice, warm weather. As the weather here changes, I have to keep editing my fuel map. By now I have half a dozen or so maps saved in my laptop, for various times of year. I'd imagine Saskatchewan has more extreme cold than Wisconsin, so he'd end up doing the same thing. At least the software needed for editing is included with the piggy now. All you need is the right cable to hook up.

 

True, but to get it tuned you need the wideband o2 sensor not to mention the know-how of what you're doing so your engine doesn't die. If you do get piggy, i STRONGLY advise you to read over DangerousDan's tuning guides.

 

The tune is not based on warm weather......it based on more oxygen in Socal do to being closer the sea level.....when it gets colder.....the oxygen get more density....making it harder the heat up the wire inside the MAF......in turn sending more voltage which=more fuel delivery......very simple...

 

So then why did I get a "system too lean" code when the weather got colder? Shouldn't it have gotten richer?

I had to add quite a bit of fuel to get my trims to come down out of the stratosphere.

 

so from what i understand it would be better for me to go with the cam or header then. Apposed to the piggy because It does get very cold here in the winter and I have no clue on how to tune the piggy myself. As weather seem to play a big factor and I really don't want to blow my car up. I guess the other option is to remove the piggy for the winter. But I don't know if thats such a good idea either.

 

Piggybacks are designed to intercept MAF signals and replace them with your desired voltage. As a result, the ecu no longer has the ability to adapt because the MAF sends a signal to the piggyback which in turn sends the signal (you picked for that given cell) to the ecu. Therefore, if you have a piggyback, you have basically disabled your ecu's ability to adapt and you will run into both rich and lean situations, depending on alltitude, weather, and a variety of other factors.

In Myszkewicz case, cold weather usually means a high pressure system. This in turn means more air is getting into the piston chambers and because of the piggyback, the ecu will not increase fuel input. This leads to the leaning out that he is facing.

 

this is not correct. the ecu will still have the same abilities it had before the piggyback. the only thing the piggyback does is modify the signal coming from the MAF. It is two dimensional, RPM vs Voltage, and only changes one value. you are tweaking a map in the piggyback, which is really halfway tweaking a map in the ECU, and this doesn't affect any of the ECU's ability to extrapolate values for it's map using other sensors.

that being said, offsetting the values WILL affect how easily the ECU overcomes changes, which is probably why some of us are seeing the season changes change our tunes. I would hypothesize that because we are changing values at one temperature to make it ideal when the temperature changes again the ECU still compensates for the change but with our modification on top of it it throws the ECU's calculations off. we are modifying one signal (a primary signal for fuel) out of many that the ECU uses to calculate fuel, and even though we know what this signal means we don't have any idea what the algorithms look like.

think of it like this. the ecu draws a a wiggly line. you use the piggyback to make that line straight by changing the values the ECU gets to see from the MAF. then the sun goes down and your temps drop. the ECU is still drawing a wiggly line, but the peaks are all moved around now due to the temperature change. your values in the piggyback aren't going to make the line straight any more, are they? your ECU just adjusted, but the tune you have on the piggy is no longer ideal. the further you move from the tuning conditions the further off your tune will fall.

you are over simplifying how this system operates. for one thing the IAT sensor exhibits known resistances at particular temperatures; it's not a hot-wire sensor. while the sample rate of this sensor is probably affected by instant temperature changes it's pretty likely it can tell the difference between -10* and 75*.

as for the base tune, it's been proven to be lean on some cars. This was before you became a member, so it's not like we expect you to know this, but we aren't just saying it.

In summation, modifying the signal coming from the MAF isn't really going to limit your ECU's ability to compensate for atmospheric changes unless those changes are quick enough to put you far outside your current conditions. tuning on a dyno in SoCal (especially when you aren't even using the same car or even mods) and immediately flying the piggyback to Ontario for installation is going to show you exactly how much outside temperature and altitude matter. your cars stock tune is drastically different between these locations (open loop) so your base tune is going to be way off.

I'm not saying you'll blow your engine, but do you think 16's and 17's are good target AFR's for a base tune? I don't

 

If it where I had the money, I'd say piggyback. It involves some learning on your part, but seems like it could be doable not to mention interesting.

 

in the end it's the only mod that really matters. you could have much more money in your untuned car and blow up going down the track trying to beat my lightly modified tuned car. it will benefit an entirely stock engine and never relies on other modifications, need I say more?

 

Yeah, less fun right out of the box since he doesn't yet know what he's doing with it, but seems like he would get a lot more out of it in the long run.

 

Which exactly why I'm researching as much as I can now, trying to learn everything I can about tuning RRM's piggy before I buy it

 

Dude, header and Cam.....Do everything you are going to do AND THEEEEEEN, get the piggy, if not, you will be tuning that thing every time you add a part, so it wouldbe cost effective, and rolling around untuned/illtuned wont give u any benefits. Think of it in the long run, you will save some dough and run around in a decently tuned car. Also, try to verse yourself in the software and they way u can tune it depending on weather changes, and u will save even more and keep the car in safe AFRs

 

The software comes with a nifty practice mode, so you can play and get familiarized with it. There are boards here too you can read and get informed...happy reading