Question about the throttle
Oct 14, 2007, 07:09 PM
#1
Question about the throttle
Alright this could be a really stoopid question here. But here it goes.....
I just got my car back from getting the RRM head and cam installed.. I cant really give it full throttle and shift hard just yet, i need to break it in and touch up the valvetrain... but I noticed something odd...
Like i said i couldnt really beat on the car 100%, but i did do a few pulls on it. I noticed the car pulls REALLY healthy at 50-75% throttle... i mean REALLY pulls good... But the small amount of time that i had it at 100% (very small amount of time) It didnt feel that big a differnence. I mean, it pulled good, and probly a little bit more than the throttle at 75%, but not as much as i thought it would.....
Now is it possible that my throttle could be off, and when push the gas pedel in a little, its giving it a little extra throttle than it should???? Anything making my throttle read 75% when its really 50%... and why so much power at 3/4 throttle, and only a SMALL amount more at full throttle???
Is this because of a throttle problem? or is it because i am a retard and just didnt break in my valve train and i"m being paranoid?? i dunno just some feed back please lol thanks
I just got my car back from getting the RRM head and cam installed.. I cant really give it full throttle and shift hard just yet, i need to break it in and touch up the valvetrain... but I noticed something odd...
Like i said i couldnt really beat on the car 100%, but i did do a few pulls on it. I noticed the car pulls REALLY healthy at 50-75% throttle... i mean REALLY pulls good... But the small amount of time that i had it at 100% (very small amount of time) It didnt feel that big a differnence. I mean, it pulled good, and probly a little bit more than the throttle at 75%, but not as much as i thought it would.....
Now is it possible that my throttle could be off, and when push the gas pedel in a little, its giving it a little extra throttle than it should???? Anything making my throttle read 75% when its really 50%... and why so much power at 3/4 throttle, and only a SMALL amount more at full throttle???
Is this because of a throttle problem? or is it because i am a retard and just didnt break in my valve train and i"m being paranoid?? i dunno just some feed back please lol thanks
Oct 14, 2007, 07:16 PM
#3
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A couple thoughts:
1. You had the head and cam installed, and doing so meant the battery had to be disconnected... Could be the car hasn't reset itself yet, this is very common on Honda's that I have worked on..
2. Throttle is Drive-by-wire, see above since it is also computer controlled....
3. The head may just do more for your low end than high-end... Maybe same results with the cam....
I would say give it a fair break-in time, get some miles on it, and get back to us... Once its broken in, you may need to adjust the valves again...
1. You had the head and cam installed, and doing so meant the battery had to be disconnected... Could be the car hasn't reset itself yet, this is very common on Honda's that I have worked on..
2. Throttle is Drive-by-wire, see above since it is also computer controlled....
3. The head may just do more for your low end than high-end... Maybe same results with the cam....
I would say give it a fair break-in time, get some miles on it, and get back to us... Once its broken in, you may need to adjust the valves again...
Oct 14, 2007, 07:44 PM
#4
Easy wait to tell, pull off your intake tube at the TB, move the ignition to "on" (don't start) and floor the pedal. You'll see if the TB is fully open or not.
My guess, though, is that you need to get tuned. Those are some pretty hefty mods that need to be tuned for.
My guess, though, is that you need to get tuned. Those are some pretty hefty mods that need to be tuned for.
Oct 14, 2007, 07:45 PM
#5
Thinking... maybe its a lean out? not getting enough fuel? Next time i drive her im gonna check my egt's but they are always a little high 
Im getting her dyno tuned in a few weeks.
And yes the valves are being adjusted next weekend
Im getting her dyno tuned in a few weeks.
And yes the valves are being adjusted next weekend
Oct 14, 2007, 08:38 PM
#6
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I also had that problem at half throttle I got more push or power. My tunner told me not to do that, to only go full throttle. It will run lean at half throttle but will destroy your engine.
Oct 15, 2007, 01:15 AM
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Funny thing you mention that, thats the exact same symptons I've been explaining to my tuner. Told him about that today believe it or not lol.
Ever since I got my cams installed I've noticed that at half throttle she is ready to rock and roll, just tap the accelerator and she urges forward. However, approaching top-end, the engine sounds more powerful than it actually is.
That is why, I'm going to do a dyno run, see what the tune is like. Check for the flat spots, anything out of the ordinary. I know this tuner that tuned my car tuned her to low-mid, which is awesome for daily driving, but I really want that mid-top end WOT!
Btw, ROL, all those mods and not one single dyno-run nor tune. That is crazy! Glad you're getting a tune for your baby, she needs it!
Ever since I got my cams installed I've noticed that at half throttle she is ready to rock and roll, just tap the accelerator and she urges forward. However, approaching top-end, the engine sounds more powerful than it actually is.
That is why, I'm going to do a dyno run, see what the tune is like. Check for the flat spots, anything out of the ordinary. I know this tuner that tuned my car tuned her to low-mid, which is awesome for daily driving, but I really want that mid-top end WOT!
Btw, ROL, all those mods and not one single dyno-run nor tune. That is crazy! Glad you're getting a tune for your baby, she needs it!
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Oct 15, 2007, 07:04 AM
#9
hahaha i know i know.... its about time...
yea i guess when it comes time for me to tune her i'll keep an eye out for flat spots in the dyno curve.... im even gonna do a few runs at full throttle, and 3/4's throttle. Just to see what it reads...
I'm gonna call the guys up at turbotrix today (monday) to schedrual me in for somethi9ng on the weekend i hope. I start my new job tuesday so i cant call out on a friday already
My new fuel injector comes in hopefully by friday. 11psi here i come!
What power you think i should be hitting?
yea i guess when it comes time for me to tune her i'll keep an eye out for flat spots in the dyno curve.... im even gonna do a few runs at full throttle, and 3/4's throttle. Just to see what it reads...
I'm gonna call the guys up at turbotrix today (monday) to schedrual me in for somethi9ng on the weekend i hope. I start my new job tuesday so i cant call out on a friday already
My new fuel injector comes in hopefully by friday. 11psi here i come!
What power you think i should be hitting?
Oct 15, 2007, 07:10 AM
#10
Makes sense tho. Give your car half throttle, or half "gas" and its gonna run lean. Give it more throttle, or more "gas" and it'll run normal. The throttle just controls the fuel, more throttle you give it, more fuel your giving the motor. So half throttle will be lean, full throttle should be good.....
but will running my car a little lean really give me that kind of power???? If so when i tune my car i want to tell him to run it as lean as possible, but it still be safe for daily driving. I watn it tuned for mid=top end. Could car less abotu lowend and mid. I want a dragcar.
but will running my car a little lean really give me that kind of power???? If so when i tune my car i want to tell him to run it as lean as possible, but it still be safe for daily driving. I watn it tuned for mid=top end. Could car less abotu lowend and mid. I want a dragcar.
Oct 15, 2007, 07:38 AM
#11
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Half throttle give 1/2 air too though, don't jump ahead of yourself... The throttle controls both air and fuel together.... Otherwise every car around would be dead in no time if it ran lean at partial throttle....
Oct 15, 2007, 08:00 AM
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throttle position regulates open and closed loop fuel trims. half throttle or even 75% is likely still in closed loop. in closed loop the ECU is looking at your o2 sensors and trying to maintain 14.7AFR. that's too lean for f/i.
at your point you probably need to consider something besides a piggyback. you already have a CEL right? you need to figure out if you even enter closed loop anymore. if you still do, you should consider maybe defeating o2 sensors to force the car to run in open loop all the time, and then having it tuned properly.
the other thing you can do to prevent lean out conditions under partial throttle is to find a way to control your o2 sensors, the mapecu2 has an o2 adjust function, and you can likely find dedicated parts to do this for you. adjust your o2 sensors to force richer conditions rather than the target AFR(do this by tricking the ECU into thinking the voltages are reading 14.7.
with the amount of air you are moving it's very likely you are leaning out under WOT with the base turbo tune. I would recommend getting it tuned ASAP after the valvetrain is broken in properly.
at your point you probably need to consider something besides a piggyback. you already have a CEL right? you need to figure out if you even enter closed loop anymore. if you still do, you should consider maybe defeating o2 sensors to force the car to run in open loop all the time, and then having it tuned properly.
the other thing you can do to prevent lean out conditions under partial throttle is to find a way to control your o2 sensors, the mapecu2 has an o2 adjust function, and you can likely find dedicated parts to do this for you. adjust your o2 sensors to force richer conditions rather than the target AFR(do this by tricking the ECU into thinking the voltages are reading 14.7.
with the amount of air you are moving it's very likely you are leaning out under WOT with the base turbo tune. I would recommend getting it tuned ASAP after the valvetrain is broken in properly.
