Ralliart + Road Course
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,447
Likes: 14
From: Australia
Yeah, we're on here. You just have to lure us out with tasty treats. 
I've been competing in small club-level motorsport - fun, informal stuff - for 6-7 years. I'm not a "natural" good driver at all, but with an ordered, technical approach and lots of seat time, I get there. Some people just "know" what the car will do before it does it, whereas I have to rote-learn, repeat and analyse from every which angle.
My last car got progressively more and more track-oriented until my wife refused to drive it (and didn't even want to get in it). Hard ride, squeaky graunchy brakes, very low, light and rattly - great to chuck about on track. Not so good as a daily driver for someone with a family. Kind of why I've got an RA hatch now instead of an X.
RA in AutoX (ie. short "skidpan" style courses)...
Its weight doesn't do it any favours. Wider rims and tyres are a must. If you're made of $$$ get lightweight rims. Otherwise, well, it's a big fatty anyway, so what's a few more kilos unsprung weight?
Its brakes will last 45-second tight courses, but you'll want good pad material and fluid in there. Bleed the air out of the brakes until you're sick of it, bed in the pads like crazy and you'll end up with acceptable pedal feel.
A simple boost pill and GST Base Map is a good start to get (a lot) more out of the engine.... but if you're tracking it you really need to do more than just slapping on the basemap and driving. Get a wideband. Get to know your boost levels. Watch for knock. So basically, tune it properly if you are going to drive it hard.
Lose the horrible stock intercooler. There are plenty of decent alternatives.
Front camber adjustment are a minimum. Get at least SOME neg camber in there - bolts will get you about 1.5 degrees neg, which is an absolute minimum!
Sway bars are a black art, as is all suspension tuning. Good luck! Be prepared for trial and error, plus a few surprises ("it never used to swap ends with no warning!"). Or find some crazy zen genius who can just get it perfect first shot. Not found one yet!
Look at getting a set of "street+track" tyres - some people know 'em as "star-spec" (or *spec). I've got Kumho KU-36 on mine, and I love them. The best bit is, I now only have ONE set of rims - no back-breaking changing four heavy wheels ON the car pre-track, then OFF the car afterwards. Did that for 6 years - so happy with *spec. They last well too.
More on tyres... if you DO get a second set of full-on sticky r-spec tyres, I reckon you'll unbalance the car unless you have replaced the springs/dampers with something a lot more aggressive (eg. coilovers or more "track" springs/dampers). Once hot, sticky tyres are insanely grippy. Brilliant, if your car is set up to make best use of it - and if you're used to it. There are different compounds from very soft to harder stuff. Different sidewalls, different tread, different manners close to the limit. Been there, done that... all great fun... but with the RA it's *specs for me now!
Play with your tyre pressures. I've checked wear and heat for a while now, and on my Kumhos I wouldn't run below 40psi front, 36 rear. The fronts work a lot harder than the rears, trust me! They will wear out vastly more quickly, so rotate, rotate, rotate!
Finally, the power steering pump isn't up to the job for tight performance driving. It might start to go heavy/lumpy if you're sawing at the wheel madly. You can avoid most of this if you are smooth. I had it happen a lot when I first got the car. Now it never happens, as I've got into the groove with it, set it up better in advance, and don't need quick corrective steering lock applied. If your steering starts kicking back at you or feeling dead for a moment, review your previous corner approach and inputs. Of course, some courses may cause this to happen even if you're an F1 driver. But my experience is that the RA's "weak" PS pump can tell you stuff about your own driving approach.
Turn ASC off.
I drive in GRAVEL mode, as it is a nice "medium" setting. You may notice a slight difference with lift-off oversteer through tight course corners with the different settings. GRAVEL works for me.
It's quite chuckable. I've not been able to spin the car yet, which means I'm still not pushing hard enough...
RA on Long Track
Handling is "okay"... quite soft, leans a bit, so it takes a good while to complete weight transfer from one side to the other. The pluses there? You won't lose the back end in a flash, and turn into a 1600kg grass-bound missile, butt first. Trust me, that's a good thing, as your times are never very good once you start gardening.
Also, if you're in a car that threatens to swap ends all the time, you slow down and take it very gingerly. Pretty soon, you've lost the fun and the aggressive edge - which is what track driving is all about. You NEED A CAR THAT GIVES YOU CONFIDENCE. Everyone has their own skill level, whether built-in natural stuff of rote-learned through seat time. Don't wish for a car that far exceeds your ability to drive it hard - it's actually no fun long-term.
On skidpan courses, that stuff doesn't matter. Kill traffic cones, who carea? But a long track driver error = missile = expensive.
The RA is NOT good on the cooling front. That will hurt you on long track. Brakes and SST temps are the big two. There is no oil cooler on the RA - this is something you can install. The stock intercooler has no place on long tracks.
And back to the tune. Watch your knocksum like a hawk. Watch your boost levels at SST shift points like a hawk. Avoid overly quick boost spooling through out-of-kilter WGDC map settings. You'll be getting on-throttle at 4000rpm - 5000rpm again and again - this needs to be properly tuned so you don't get knock. Watch your AFRs on a wideband. Log, log log. Or... get tuned by a genius who sets it up perfectly first time. I've said that before!
The RA's long-track handling is quite interesting. With ASC off, and ADC in GRAVEL mode, it actually feels pretty nice. It doesn't feel like 1600kg... but you do need to brake to the conditions (and tyres, pads, temps...).
That's all I have time for now!
Cheers,
Rich
I'd love to see some responses from the road race guys on the behaviors of the Ralliart on a road course. List up the mods you've done (if any at all), what track you went to, your experience level, and then some general or even specific responses to how the car composed itself. Do you guys even exist on this forum?
My last car got progressively more and more track-oriented until my wife refused to drive it (and didn't even want to get in it). Hard ride, squeaky graunchy brakes, very low, light and rattly - great to chuck about on track. Not so good as a daily driver for someone with a family. Kind of why I've got an RA hatch now instead of an X.
RA in AutoX (ie. short "skidpan" style courses)...
Its weight doesn't do it any favours. Wider rims and tyres are a must. If you're made of $$$ get lightweight rims. Otherwise, well, it's a big fatty anyway, so what's a few more kilos unsprung weight?
Its brakes will last 45-second tight courses, but you'll want good pad material and fluid in there. Bleed the air out of the brakes until you're sick of it, bed in the pads like crazy and you'll end up with acceptable pedal feel.
A simple boost pill and GST Base Map is a good start to get (a lot) more out of the engine.... but if you're tracking it you really need to do more than just slapping on the basemap and driving. Get a wideband. Get to know your boost levels. Watch for knock. So basically, tune it properly if you are going to drive it hard.
Lose the horrible stock intercooler. There are plenty of decent alternatives.
Front camber adjustment are a minimum. Get at least SOME neg camber in there - bolts will get you about 1.5 degrees neg, which is an absolute minimum!
Sway bars are a black art, as is all suspension tuning. Good luck! Be prepared for trial and error, plus a few surprises ("it never used to swap ends with no warning!"). Or find some crazy zen genius who can just get it perfect first shot. Not found one yet!
Look at getting a set of "street+track" tyres - some people know 'em as "star-spec" (or *spec). I've got Kumho KU-36 on mine, and I love them. The best bit is, I now only have ONE set of rims - no back-breaking changing four heavy wheels ON the car pre-track, then OFF the car afterwards. Did that for 6 years - so happy with *spec. They last well too.
More on tyres... if you DO get a second set of full-on sticky r-spec tyres, I reckon you'll unbalance the car unless you have replaced the springs/dampers with something a lot more aggressive (eg. coilovers or more "track" springs/dampers). Once hot, sticky tyres are insanely grippy. Brilliant, if your car is set up to make best use of it - and if you're used to it. There are different compounds from very soft to harder stuff. Different sidewalls, different tread, different manners close to the limit. Been there, done that... all great fun... but with the RA it's *specs for me now!
Play with your tyre pressures. I've checked wear and heat for a while now, and on my Kumhos I wouldn't run below 40psi front, 36 rear. The fronts work a lot harder than the rears, trust me! They will wear out vastly more quickly, so rotate, rotate, rotate!
Finally, the power steering pump isn't up to the job for tight performance driving. It might start to go heavy/lumpy if you're sawing at the wheel madly. You can avoid most of this if you are smooth. I had it happen a lot when I first got the car. Now it never happens, as I've got into the groove with it, set it up better in advance, and don't need quick corrective steering lock applied. If your steering starts kicking back at you or feeling dead for a moment, review your previous corner approach and inputs. Of course, some courses may cause this to happen even if you're an F1 driver. But my experience is that the RA's "weak" PS pump can tell you stuff about your own driving approach.
Turn ASC off.
I drive in GRAVEL mode, as it is a nice "medium" setting. You may notice a slight difference with lift-off oversteer through tight course corners with the different settings. GRAVEL works for me.
It's quite chuckable. I've not been able to spin the car yet, which means I'm still not pushing hard enough...
RA on Long Track
Handling is "okay"... quite soft, leans a bit, so it takes a good while to complete weight transfer from one side to the other. The pluses there? You won't lose the back end in a flash, and turn into a 1600kg grass-bound missile, butt first. Trust me, that's a good thing, as your times are never very good once you start gardening.
Also, if you're in a car that threatens to swap ends all the time, you slow down and take it very gingerly. Pretty soon, you've lost the fun and the aggressive edge - which is what track driving is all about. You NEED A CAR THAT GIVES YOU CONFIDENCE. Everyone has their own skill level, whether built-in natural stuff of rote-learned through seat time. Don't wish for a car that far exceeds your ability to drive it hard - it's actually no fun long-term.
On skidpan courses, that stuff doesn't matter. Kill traffic cones, who carea? But a long track driver error = missile = expensive.
The RA is NOT good on the cooling front. That will hurt you on long track. Brakes and SST temps are the big two. There is no oil cooler on the RA - this is something you can install. The stock intercooler has no place on long tracks.
And back to the tune. Watch your knocksum like a hawk. Watch your boost levels at SST shift points like a hawk. Avoid overly quick boost spooling through out-of-kilter WGDC map settings. You'll be getting on-throttle at 4000rpm - 5000rpm again and again - this needs to be properly tuned so you don't get knock. Watch your AFRs on a wideband. Log, log log. Or... get tuned by a genius who sets it up perfectly first time. I've said that before!
The RA's long-track handling is quite interesting. With ASC off, and ADC in GRAVEL mode, it actually feels pretty nice. It doesn't feel like 1600kg... but you do need to brake to the conditions (and tyres, pads, temps...).
That's all I have time for now!
Cheers,
Rich
Well said Rich!
One thing I can add, is that on my first day I was trying to fight the "weight transfers". By the last 2 sessions (of 5) I had learned to use the weight for some VERY "light" drifting around the corners (particularly the 3 turns after the fish bowl, when your speeds are up). Trying to tame this big girl is too much for me (probably too much for most men I'd wager ;p ). But if you ride the motion, all in all quite enjoyable!
One thing I can add, is that on my first day I was trying to fight the "weight transfers". By the last 2 sessions (of 5) I had learned to use the weight for some VERY "light" drifting around the corners (particularly the 3 turns after the fish bowl, when your speeds are up). Trying to tame this big girl is too much for me (probably too much for most men I'd wager ;p ). But if you ride the motion, all in all quite enjoyable!
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,447
Likes: 14
From: Australia
Well said Rich!
One thing I can add, is that on my first day I was trying to fight the "weight transfers". By the last 2 sessions (of 5) I had learned to use the weight for some VERY "light" drifting around the corners (particularly the 3 turns after the fish bowl, when your speeds are up). Trying to tame this big girl is too much for me (probably too much for most men I'd wager ;p ). But if you ride the motion, all in all quite enjoyable!
One thing I can add, is that on my first day I was trying to fight the "weight transfers". By the last 2 sessions (of 5) I had learned to use the weight for some VERY "light" drifting around the corners (particularly the 3 turns after the fish bowl, when your speeds are up). Trying to tame this big girl is too much for me (probably too much for most men I'd wager ;p ). But if you ride the motion, all in all quite enjoyable!
One of the experienced track personnel was watching my short-track driving, and commented that while the car was moving about a lot (plenty of suspension travel, and using all of it), it was actually doing everything it was being asked to do very efficiently. Its weight was on the correct wheels at the right time, the dampers were controlling the springs effectively, etc.
The big problem with the RA "out of the box" is that it's a well balanced package! By that, I mean that its brakes/intercooler/SST cooler/no oil cooler setup is appropriate in view of the de-tuned engine management and small t/c. That was very deliberate on the part of Mitsubishi - it's all about engineering balance.
While it's pretty easy to hit the power-up button on the powerplant, it immediately unbalances the vehicle as a whole. If a GST boost pill map was your first step - and want to track it - you end up with a lot of additional jobs to do to restore the balance.
The challenge is to do that without losing the road-friendly nature that is part of the RA's dna. After all, a "100% track-oriented RA"? Seriously, just get an Evo!
Rich
Depends on the group, track, and requirements.
I did Infineon raceway with NASA. They have a yearly $50 membership fee and it cost me $200 for a day. For HPDE1, it comes with an instructor and there are about 5-6 sessions of 20 minutes each.
I did Infineon raceway with NASA. They have a yearly $50 membership fee and it cost me $200 for a day. For HPDE1, it comes with an instructor and there are about 5-6 sessions of 20 minutes each.
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 549
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From: Detroit, MI USA
Rich, I loved what you've said. That's the type of reponse I want to see in this thread. I have a big problem with the power steering on the autocross course, but when I went to this track, I didn't have a single issue with it. But, my instructor did stress (not only the proper racing line) how to drive smooth in order to combat abrupt changes in the chassis. Swift braking, excelerating, and cornering usually bring about unexpected results, which send you flying off track. I'm glad you brought that point up. The Ralliart is heavy, and there isn't much support for stability (braking, cooling, cornering, etc.)
As the other guy stated, this depends on the track and which group hosts the event. There are three road race tracks in Michigan. All three of them are $140-$160, I haven't seen the price above $160 for any track here.
As the other guy stated, this depends on the track and which group hosts the event. There are three road race tracks in Michigan. All three of them are $140-$160, I haven't seen the price above $160 for any track here.
and great posts. makes me reconsider my incoming coilovers purchase
sadly my car is not yet ready for the track
What kind of coilovers are u guys using. Im gonna start to autox the car after I upgrade my brakes. Im also gonna upgrade the trans oil, trans cooler, install an oil cooler and a set of coilovers also.
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
From: At the apex
Rich's summary is quite accurate from what I have seen thus far with my '09 RA.
While I have only done one track day (Mosport) with this car back in May, I tracked my previous car (Porsche 928 S4) for the better part of 10 years.
I found the ACD GRAVEL setting the most comfortable as well. As it was raining and my first time out with the RA, I left the ASC ON until the rain stopped and the track dried up. Coming from a 3500lb RWD car with no traction control, the RA was an absolute joy to drive. The power steering may have faded, but I'm so used to heavy steering that I really didn't notice.
The tires are Pirelli PZero Nero (nice traction, but soft sidewalls), with a hot tire pressure of 41psi, front and rear. Fronts heated up much faster than the rears, so I adjusted accordingly between each session.
The temperature was around 20C, and fortunately I didn't get a tranny overheating warning. Temp gauge on the dash remained just below the midway point.
For what it's worth, I changed the coolant and added a bottle of Royal Purple's Purple Ice to the rad prior to lapping. It goes in purple, but goes clear after it heats up:
http://www.royalpurple.com/radiator-additive.html
The stock suspension did feel a little soft, and there was some body roll. Any thoughts on the Eibach Pro-Kit?
By far the worst problem was the brakes. I'm trying out a set of front and rear EBC Yellowstuff pads in two weeks and I'll let everyone know how they fair.
For now I have removed my fog lights and added a little mesh to keep any flying debris out. Hopefully that helps on the ventilation front.
While I have only done one track day (Mosport) with this car back in May, I tracked my previous car (Porsche 928 S4) for the better part of 10 years.
I found the ACD GRAVEL setting the most comfortable as well. As it was raining and my first time out with the RA, I left the ASC ON until the rain stopped and the track dried up. Coming from a 3500lb RWD car with no traction control, the RA was an absolute joy to drive. The power steering may have faded, but I'm so used to heavy steering that I really didn't notice.
The tires are Pirelli PZero Nero (nice traction, but soft sidewalls), with a hot tire pressure of 41psi, front and rear. Fronts heated up much faster than the rears, so I adjusted accordingly between each session.
The temperature was around 20C, and fortunately I didn't get a tranny overheating warning. Temp gauge on the dash remained just below the midway point.
For what it's worth, I changed the coolant and added a bottle of Royal Purple's Purple Ice to the rad prior to lapping. It goes in purple, but goes clear after it heats up:
http://www.royalpurple.com/radiator-additive.html
The stock suspension did feel a little soft, and there was some body roll. Any thoughts on the Eibach Pro-Kit?
By far the worst problem was the brakes. I'm trying out a set of front and rear EBC Yellowstuff pads in two weeks and I'll let everyone know how they fair.
For now I have removed my fog lights and added a little mesh to keep any flying debris out. Hopefully that helps on the ventilation front.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
I autocrossed my car again yesterday. It went much better than the previous time. The course was much more flowing and had less hard cut backs. My power steering gave me no issues.
It was also the first time I really noticed the AWD and how awesome it can be. Coming out of a hairpin I could stomp on it and the wheels locked and shot me out.
Now I need a better suspension set up and some stickier tires.
It was also the first time I really noticed the AWD and how awesome it can be. Coming out of a hairpin I could stomp on it and the wheels locked and shot me out.
Now I need a better suspension set up and some stickier tires.
Bump for an Update....
Took the RA to SOW Full Track.... ran a 1.31:xxx Funny part was some how I I flipped the switch by accident and put the car in Normal mode while on the track.
Car is on RRM Springs and Stoptech 309 Pads
Took the RA to SOW Full Track.... ran a 1.31:xxx Funny part was some how I I flipped the switch by accident and put the car in Normal mode while on the track.
Car is on RRM Springs and Stoptech 309 Pads
