PistenBoy

Hi noble people, I am a newbie to the forum, but have read many posts since I got my Ralliart in Feb/13. This is just a query to figure out why my Ralliart is failing to start, and hopefully we find a solution so that if anyone else has a similar issue, we can fix it! =D

Little bit of background: Over the past couple of weeks I had some issues cold starting the car, but after the second crank attempt she always started.

The issue: I was away for 4 days this weekend and when I got back, I wanted to make sure she started okay and she did. The next morning (MONDAY) I was on my way to work when the car wouldn't start at all. No matter how many times I gave it a crank it wouldn't start.

Preliminary Solution: Naturally I assumed the battery level was dropping below 10V (The assumed min voltage required for the injectors to fire) so I swapped the thing for a fresh 620CCA batt. But the problem still persisted.

The dealership solution: I tow-trucked my car to the Mitsu. dealership to see what they would do. They managed to get the motor running through flooring the throttle and cranking it till it started in a plooooom of smoke! They said there was probably a build up of carbon/soot around the valves, which prevented them from closing properly (Doesn't make sense to me either).

The dealership recommendation: They recommended to put a soot cleaning additive to the fuel tank, but I don't know what other damage that may cause =S So haven't done that yet!

The issue still persists, sort of.. She had trouble starting once since the dealership about 4 starts later.

Any ideas on what may be causing this? I did replace my filter to a K&N panel filter about 2 weeks ago. No issues during driving other than a weird sucking/metal noise in 5th after dipping into boost from 4th =S

Veronica

iTrader: (2)

oh brother! [smacks forehead] The dealership mechs sound like idiots!

1. I would replace the fuel system relays with new blue or newer black ones.
2. I 'assume' it did not generate a code (did the chimps even check for codes?) - so i would then assume either bad gas or a failing fuel pump. The method of 'flooring it while cranking' tells the ECU the engine is flooded - so it cuts fuel and then adds it start... One or a few clogged open injectors could cause this.

3. It is NOT soot keeping the valves from sealing (unelss they did a compression check... which i doubt (see 'chimp' reference, above)...

4. THIS is why dealerships get a bad rap IMHO. whut a buncha clownz... really. Dealership mechs - can you justify this handling of this customer?

stfuad

yah I doubt that an almost brand new car would have carbon buildup on valves.

do newer model ralliarts still suffer from the relay problem?

things to check on no start-engine cranking are spark, fuel and compression.

you can do all of those without expensive tools, though they do help.

zebra4

I know what may have happened as this has happened to me on several occasions... When you started it the day before did you let it warm up, or just start it, then shut it off? I have had this happen when i start my car just to move it, then shut it off right away. Next day the only thing it would do it crank - no start. I figured it was flooded (as it smelled very rich in fuel), so i plugged the plugs, dried them off, re-installed, held accelerator pedal to the floor and cranked. It sputtered to life. This has happened to me on 3 different occasions, and this method has worked everytime. For me anyways.

PistenBoy

I second your statement that they are a bunch of chimps... They have all the tools and equipment in the world but don't know why their feet are not the same shape as their hands...

As far as I knew, all models after 2009-10 were fixed of the poor relay issue.. =S I don't know if it is the fuel pump failing as there seems to be pleanty of fuel going into the cylinders at WOT =S

I asked for a work sheet from the dealership to see what they actually tested and they said they didn't have the record.. So that's kind of a bummer.. Cant tell what they actually did ><

PistenBoy

HMMMMMB! That is the best theory so far!
Nope, I just turned it on for about 5 seconds before switching it off. That's probably the same thing that's happening to mine then. Thanks for letting me know that mine isn't the only one that was having this problem. I guess i should keep the engine warm enough to keep the plugs dry =D

joseph143

iTrader: (8)

why are you fighting the cleaning recommendation? its 10 bucks at most.... you can rag on dealership mechanics all you want.. but when was the last time you spoke to one directly? probably never... you speak to a guy who knows barely more then you do who relays a message that he doesnt really understand... go to autozone pick up chemtool or seafoam and clean your ****ing system out...

if that doesnt help then listen to the idiots on here who know less about the car that the mechanic who works on them all day every god damned day does... **** people **** me off

PistenBoy

I'm not fighting it, i was just questioning it. I had poor experiences with the cleaning additives before, where the additive (Injector cleaner or some other additive, years ago now) ruined new platinum plugs (turned them yellow and they were covered in corrosion dimples). Also from speaking to my Audi Mech friend, soot buildup on valves was a common thing 20 years ago on the early VW Beatles, not in modern day cars.
But it is true.. The guy relaying the message knows so little about cars.. It annoys me to talk to him, but if I cannot speak to the actual mechanic, how can I find out what they checked and what they ruled out as being a problem.
Hence why I came to the forum.

BEKevo

iTrader: (2)

I highly doubt you had so much soot build up, your car would not start. Something else is the issue. Like others have mentioned, check fuel pressure and compression and report back.

AusTweak

Fuel pressure reg?

DatRAzn

iTrader: (2)

Just throwing this out there;

If it doesn't start after the second crank; STOP, and wait five minutes. On your next and every attempt after that - push the throttle down to the floor and keep it there on your third try. This will prevent flooding and will give your RA a better chance of starting up. I've had the cold start issues many times when I first got my RA, but haven't had any issues in the past year or two.

Let the injectors prime when you first turn the key. Wait for the ticking to stop, normally a second or two, and then crank the starter. Repeat this once if it doesn't start.



Most dealer techs have factory service manuals that they follow and refer to. They don't give half of a **** to learn about the cars, unless they're car guys. Better yet, 90% of the cars they work on are not performance vehicles. They're non-turbo lancers, galants, and outlanders; so, sure, they "work on them every god damned day," but how many of them are RA/Evos? I reckon that there are few.

You try to make it sound like everyone on the forum is an incompetent nincompoop, but yet make a bigger one out of yourself.

Veronica

iTrader: (2)

Are you a dealer technician?
Is this (OP's original question/dealer response) how you would treat a customer?

I am not trained, but that does not mean i don't know about troubleshooting cars.

Slee256

^^^Agree 100%.

Slee256

^^^This. My experience bears this out as well, I don't even call the dealer anymore because most of them are clueless. One time a long time ago I called them, and the service manager kept arguing with me that my car was front wheel drive rather than all wheel drive. I almost hung up on him, but I wanted to rub it in his face after I proved to him that he was completely incompetent....

Steven_Trujillo

iTrader: (6)

Hey so I'm curious on if you figured this out yet?

Just a few questions

1) is your car used?

2) has there been any other modifications done to your car?

3) current miles on the car?

4) do you have the updated rule relay?

5) what octain fuel do you use?

6) have you done all the required maintenance on your car?