For 400+ HP you'll also need fuel injectors and a fuel pump. Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors are highly recommended. DW 65c is also a highly recommended fuel pump for that power level.

I'm not sure a BBX Lite will take a SST car over 400HP on pump (91/93 oct). A BBX Lite can do it with E85, but i'm not too sure about 91/93 oct. You might need a BBX Full or FP red or Dom 2.0 to reach 400+ on 91/93 oct.

 

Ok so here is what im looking at for suggested parts to do this with. If i get a BBX full, an AMS UICP, LICP w/ BOV, and intercooler plus the MAP evo x turbo swap kit, the injector dynamics 1000cc and DW 65c fuel pump, some gauges for boost AFR and oil pressure and a tune. I believe somewhere it says i need an evo exhaust manifold also. Does this sound like everything i need?

 

you definitely need a EvoX exhaust manifold, you'll also need down the down pipe. For the parts to make it bolt to the engine and exhaust you'll want to check the evox turbo swap sticky

 

Why does he need injectors that big? If duty cycle on 800s are on the higher end but not unreasonably high he should be able to reach 400. I got 880s so that they wouldn't be strained to reach tahat same goal on my ix. Also why the DW pump rather than a cheaper walboro 255? Wasn't there a test run on one of the DW pumps (300 I believe) that showed that flow dropped off significantly in certain conditions (something to do with voltage or pressure , cna't remember) that made so it output at a lower flowrate than the walboro which was rated for 255lph? Plus shouldn;t the 255 be fine on 91/93 to flow enough to support 400HP? Not sure about x's and ralliarts but I know people on 8s and 9s that have seen 400 on newer FP greens as well. Again may add to the list of potential options.

Im just curious, not trying to be argumentative. If the other options are proven to work and are cheaper maybe it would save him a little coin. Im not as familiar with the ralliart platform as I am with my ix so please forgive and inform me if i am off base with my thought process

 

the ID1000 injectors are probably over kill, but it's better to have more than you need.

The fuel pump; I'm no expert. The DW 65c was recommended to me by RRE, and that's what I went with. Probably over kill for my tune, but like the ID1000s; better to have more than what you actually need.

The SST seems to sap a fair amount of power. EvoX GSRs have gotten 400+ with BBX Lites and FP Greens too, but the SST equipped cars (ralliarts and EvoX MRs) seem to max out around 380 on 91/93 oct. On E85 the SST cars achieve 400+ with the BBX Lites and FP Greens though.

Similar builds (400+ hp SST cars) use very similar parts to what's been listed so far.

 

Ok so with all those parts listed i will have what i need to at least get it going, i plan on doing a cold air intake and exhaust but trying to get all the necessary parts to get that turbo working on the car as the first step. I am also trying to do this as cheap as possible, any suggestions on where to look for these parts to save the most money? I found the BBX Full on lancershop.com for a little under $2000 then the AMS intercooler UICP LICP and BOV on the AMS site for around $1800. If anyone has suggestions on where to find these parts cheaper and where to buy the injectors and fuel pump from i would appreciate the help. Also another question, am i going to need to relocate the battery with this parts list or will i only have to do that if i get a cold air intake?

 

If your looking to do it cheap keep your eyes on the for sale section. You can find some great parts there and you can save yourself a couple of hundred bucks.

 

Good info on the powerhungry SST. you are definately right there. As for going as big as possible to leave room to grow I would 100% agree in almost every case (turbo go as big as you can until price or lag become too much, fuel pump same thing)

In the case of the fuel pumps though both the 255 (walboro or DW200 and the 265 (DW 65c) would be more than enough to get him where he wants to be. I know every website that sells the DW pumps say its the bezst thing ever and many tuners have bought into and had success so its hard to argue that but I did see an article at one time or another that showed at less than extreme flow conditions (different voltage or line pressures, or a combination of the 2) for the DW pump tested (the 300 i believe) the flow drops off (again I cant remember specifics or where the article is but I remember being suprised as it was a side by side 3rd party bench flow test that ran the pumps through their paces, take it with a grain of salt). I think any of them will get you where you want to be with any size injectors we have talked about

As for the injectors I would say to just find an "Injector size calculater" and find the range that puts you around your goals HP-wise (first determine drivetrain loss % for the SST and factor that into your power goals) and at the top and bottom of the most efficient duty cycle range and get anything in that range. The reason I say this is if you are going the cheaper (though albeit riskier) used route then it opens up your options as to what to get and you can shop for a great price (my 880s i got for $125 if i remember correctly and with relatively low mileage to boot).

I also agree with Steven, the used parts section is the place to go getting great parts on the cheap. Evox x oem stuff is dirt cheap, walboros usecd can be $40-50 and all you need is the $15 kit (inclues a new filter etc.) but new they are still only $79-89 so it not to big a deal. Injectors, piping, exhausts and turbos can be had for a steal all the time on here. The only thang that seems to really hold value are internals and intercoolers and they still go for 50% off retail for name brand quality stuff.

 

here is a x intercooler for $70 shipped
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sa...icp-pipes.html

Cobb AP $299 and Evo x oem turbo for $250
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sa...r-section.html

UICP $60 and would need new couplers (off brand but a hard pipe will flow pretty well and not expand under pressure)
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sa...cing-uicp.html

DW 1000 and 1300 injectors 250 and 350 repectively (each with less than 10k mi)
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sa...injectors.html

All relatively easy finds in the used for sale power section right now

 

Sorry last one dw 1300s for $200 brand new (if you ever wanted to go that big)
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sa...o-pistons.html

Point is the deals are out there and easy to find. No need to pay full price unless its something that actually should require it.

Here is a simple calculator (there are better ones I just picked this one first)
http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/flow-calculator
use hp at the wheels but estimate higher based on the horrible losses in the SST (go with 410-425 maybe) or go in the other direction find the typical loss and take that away form the 400whp and you will get it at the engine and go from there. THe calculator is a overly simple rough and dirty for both but it gets the info you want. Change the fuel pressures and duty cycle around and see what you get for a range of what could work for sizes. I did a quick input (410whp) and at the standard flows at 80% duty cycle the 1000s would be just more than you need at 90 880s or 900s would be plenty. 95 or 100 percent is not a good way to plan for injectors for the reasons ew have already been talking about (planning for wanting/needing more)

 

Yup, definitely keep an eye on the used parts sections, local salvage yards, and potentially ebay. Used parts is where its at when it comes to making power on a budget.

I have to agree with you Dolson. It really does boil down to getting what fits in your budget. In the case of the ID1000 injectors, strangely the ID1000s are less expensive than the ID850s, or they were when I bought mine (and appear to still be that way on the Injector Dynamics site), but I went with new injectors. I couldn't find any used ID1000s in the time frame that I was looking to get injectors.

Also, I don't think the SSTs are necessarily "power hungry". One of the main reasons SST builds typically have less HP is the vast majority of the tuners and builders purposely limit the amount of torque in an effort to prolong the life of the clutch packs (SST clutches are stupid expensive atm). This invariably reduces the amount of HP you will be able to make in the top end. Most SST builds limit torque to below 350-330lb/ft and have it gradually taper down at the top end, especially if the car is still on stock clutches.

There are a few 500HP SST cars floating around out there, but I don't know the exact details of their builds other than having a great whacking snail bolted to the back of their engines.

 

Again thanks, this is good info. I was thinking they had more drivetrain losses than the normal 5 speed manuals but this makes sense too. Do the x's how do the Evo MRs fair in terms of power loss? The ix and to some extent the VIIIs had really low losses through their transmissions and drivetrain. Since the rest of the Ralliart drive train is basically an evo IX from what I understand i though it was in losses in the tranny but conservative tunes make a lot of sense.

 

I'm not sure on the % power loss due to the drive train. Though, I guess if you compare stock EvoX turbo builds, it appears that the SST cars do lag behind the 5mt cars by a small amount (like maybe 10 - 20 hp base on an online eyeballing of several dynos average). Though, that's far from scientific, and could be easily proven wrong or right :P

 

No need to be scientific as there is lots of wiggle room form car to car. Add that 10-20 hp to what you expect to need just in case. Its a rough estimate so you don;t undersize or oversize your parts for you expectations. To go to extremes for an explaination. if you are wanting 350 from the wheels for reliability purposes and you get a GTX35R or with 2100s for injectors and a 400lph fuel pump. You are not only wasting extra money that could be spent somewhere else but you would lag like crazy and probably push well past your limit potentially putting other parts in danger. In the other direction if you want 450WHP and you go with 680s or 750sand an fp white or original green you will be buying parts again after you end up with something like 320 or 350hp. The reason I go to extremes here is the parts we have been talking about all have the capability to get where you want to be with some wiggle room so 800s would be tight 880s can and should get you there with a bit of wiggle room still 950s or 1000s will get you where you need to be easily but 1300s are often more expensive (not always as you have seen). There is a lot of talk about going as big as you can and the tune will square everything away but unless you can actually see the spray patten at different duty cycles I don't know if I would trust it. FIC (who makes the injectors) is the calulator page I linked above and there is a reason the duty cycles they give are from 80-100. Thats what they were designed for. Yes there offerings overlap but they all have an expected range. Can you make it work outside this range, yeah im sure a tuner could dial it back. Can a civic run 900hp, yeah but there are better options to get there that were made for it.

This is the way I think about it. Things (anything really) are designed to work most accurately and effiiently in a specific range or else they wouldn't provide options. When was the last time a one size fits all solution was better than a purpose built option?

 

Here is a injector calculator that explains what the calculations are:http://rceng.com/technical.aspx?User...zkUAd7eyUy6pa0
I found this on an LS forum but explains the injector sizing technically a bit better than I could:

"Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce_454
it depends on the injector.. the minimum controlable injector pulse with time is the cut off.. in theory you could run 160 pound injectors if they would open and close fast and uniformly enough to give a good idle... but on the delphi ECU there really isnt any use for it since you cant phase the injection differently..

(on an aftermarket ECU like bosch motronic or autronic you can change phasing to coincide with valve opening.... ) listen to the pros.. go 42

The characteristic you're referring to is called the Minimum Linear Pulse Time (MLPT). This is the shortest pulse width where an injector flows within 2% of it's linear flow rate (0 - 100% duty cycle). When the injector is running below the MLPT, it cannot accurately control fueling.

The ratio of the highest achievable flow, within the 2% deviation, to the MLPT is the Dynamic Flow Range(DFR).

Neither of these data points are easy to find for any injector, which is why I prefer to right size the injector for the application. What you want to correctly size an injector is the shortest possible pulse width at full load while staying above the MLPT at low load.