you right, what i have noticed from all the tunes i have done using the FAST, everything was done in a controlled environment within a dyno cell using a superflow engine dyno. I guess the difference is the way we tune our cars. Obviously the Superflow dyno would be best if it were available because it can hold different loads for mapping in all cells. If there was a dyno out there that used an eddy current like the superflow chassis dyno uses, i would be all over that, as would everyone else would you agree? I guess the instrumentation used (inertia dyno) works well but if full mapping is needed where should we go.... the streets or the dyno. Their are so many different factors that can affect a tune like you said and for that reason always shoot for the safer numbers. Very frustrating indeed...............

 

If you had a complete engine dyno that would be the best 2 fold I completely agree there.

An alternative would be if you have a DD (Dyno Dynamics) near you, you can simulate a loaded enviroment better becuase it will hold you at certian rpms due to it not being a inertia dyno but still it isn't perfect but it is much much better. When I tune with one usually the ign timing that I set is spot on for the street but I loose about .01-.03 afr in fueling so I know the load isn't completely accurate but very close, this could be different on each DD dyno as you know also.

 

yeah, what i need to do is save some money for a spare engine to mount up on the engine dyno. Make the most horsepower i can there and drop it in the car...... I need $$$$. As for now though, i guess i'll hold off on the AEM tuning until i can narrow the problem down more have extra money for dyno time >>>> Or should i just retard the hell out the timing and sssslowly bring it back in while tuning on the streets.... Im cherishing the stock ECU in its form because drivability is sooooo much better. No sudden quirks when the load from power steering kicks in, no cranking issues, etc . . . has anyone milked the stock ECU for peak power w/ upgrades

 

Guys.... it may not have been a bug at all, but rather the advice of EMS engineer of not sycning the timing with the evos. I chose to do it my way and now the whole issue with knock is gone and my timing advance looks great. I hope this advice helps all those who are battling a frustrating problem, sych your timing with a timing light, the crank never lies.

 

How exactly did you do this? Did you use a dial back timing light???

On the dyno subjetc. Mapping an engine by locking it in on a specific RPM works great....if you are tuning Diesel trucks! Using this method on regular engines will require a completely different map once it is installed into the car. An engines fuel and timing requirements change when the engine is revving through it's power band, over when it can't pull past a given rpm. THis is why you see guys having to tweak their a/f at the track after leaving the dyno...the dyno doesn't effectively produce the same environment for acceleration.

 

i did use a dialback light and i understand that the ems engineer say not to because you would have to do some major configuring of options to get them to read correctly

 

So how did you approach this? Using the dial back on the light WILL NOT WORK on a wasted spark setup!

 

This was the only way to get rid of the knock volts i was seeing and the detonation i was hearing after the tune i recieved from a reputable tuner who didn't sync the timing like AEM suggested. My tuner went with the advice from those at AEM and thanks to the knock control my engine is still alive. With the base cal for ignition phasing the car knocked like a mother due to the extra 10-15* of advance the engine was seeing but not monitoring on the EMS ( watched it on the crank with my own 2 eyes )

 

Jason Siebels.... your name sounds very familiar? hmmmm...

 

What you don't seem to get is that the numbers in the map are meaningless if the sync wasn't done correctly. My bet is all you have done is retard the crap out of your timing, so what you think is say...20 degrees is really like 10 or 5.

 

Jason the numbers are meaning less if the ECU doesn't read the crank signals corretly, this is the point exactly. Sorry to say but you know I support the AEM but I perfer to check every single car I put it on because most of them the timing is incorrect and most of this is due to cam gears but almost all of them need the pickup comp delay adjusted to keep the timming from jumping around at higher rpms. Once you do these things it is usually rock steady.

Some people absolutly could retard the crap out of it and make themselves feel better but I do not. I make sure it is directly on the "T".

 

The point I am trying to make here is that just becuase the timing light is telling you that you are at say....10degrees....doesn't make it true. EVO's are wasted spark, and dial back timing lights do NOT pick up wasted spark correctly, because the frequency is doubled. If you adjust the base settings in the evo, since the timing is NOT mechanically adjustable, you are going to be off. It is IMPERATIVE that when you are checking and adjusting the EVO, that you make sure to NOT use a dial back light....period. The Pickup delay comp should NOT be used on an EVO either. That function is STRICTLY for mag pickups...the EVO has logic (digital) sensors, so there is NO drift on these type of sensors, as frequency doesn't change their curve. The option ignition sync only syncs up the timing(when you go into the set ecu ignition in the EMS, this is the option that gets changed) so it DOES NOT affect the timing numbers anywhere else in the ecu. I.E. if you ask for 10 degrees the computer doesn't know if it is sync'd or not, so 10 doesn't mean 10