SANCTIONING RULES VS OWNER OPTIONS??
It's time to compare the differences. Probably 95% of the times and mph posted on EVOM are accomplished by building our cars based on the rules and regulations allowed by sanctioning bodies, such as NHRA, IHRA, IDRA, etc. MOST of the racers simply don't have an option to disregard the rules. For example, the OKIX car simply had to sit and wait for a cage to be built, because it was too fast for sanctioning rules. Did I like adding the weight? NOPE, but we HAD to do it to race on any local track. We had NO OPTION. We DID have the option of what parts or fuel, or tires we used. I've seen several posts of times or mph that bring into question whether ANY SANCTIONING RULES were followed, or is it anything goes. Throw the safety factors out the window. Disregard the fact that one area made their times FOLLOWING REQUIRED RULES, while another area has no rules to follow. For example: A new post mentions, as well as some previous others, that cars in PR use motorcycle drag slicks on their cars. I know these tires aren't rated for the cars weight, but they ARE light weight and get the job done. I've considered them my self, but was told by NHRA officials that tech should catch it and disallow them. A roll bar/cage weighs at least 75-125 lbs. In any book, that's worth a tenth of a second, or more. My point of this is to point out that MOST of us HAVE NO OPTION but to live by Sanctioning Body RULES, so are therefore limited to "WHICH PARTS do I use?" or "I need to save weight, but I HAVE to have a cage if I run faster than 11.49, so I'll just shut down early, so I can continue to come back next week". Others don't live by any rules, but also still have the parts options as those living by the Sanction Rules. Is it time to recognize the difference, instead of placing both in the same comparisons. Sorry, I love to see cars go as fast as they can too, but I don't think running without a cage, with motorcycle slicks and possibly nitrous oxide on cars that won't pass any sanctioning body tech inspection is the same as someone living by the rules and having NO OPTION but to do so. The CHOICE OF PARTS is an option for most of us, the RULES WE HAVE TO RACE UNDER is not an OPTION. The ET and MPH records should note whether they were under Sanction Rules or not. I'm sure those who live under the rules will agree. Those who don't have to live by Sanctioning Rules could care less. I think that the difference should be recognized. [/soap box]

 

You need to understand the guys from PR. I've been/raced there and can tell you that they live/sleep drag racing. The tracks there race till 3 or 4am. They know how to make a car fast and have shown that by the numerous fast cars that come from there.
The other thing that people forget is how much of a difference a driver makes. You could pretty much put Curt Brown behind the wheel of anyones car and he would better the time by a few tenths. This is the reason why these guys use Oscar to drive the Evo's and Rolly to drive their fast Subie's. Both of these guys can just flat out drive the sh*t out of the car.
I just think that it is getting out of hand with all the different records. "I have the fastest EVO VIII, with an Evo IX turbo, on radial tires, with a full interior, half a tank of gas, stock ecu, both seats, etc. IMHO all that should matter is who is the quickest/fastest. Who cares how much it weighs, what gas, tires, etc. Have a quickest/fastest stock turbo, quickest/fastest Green turbo, etc.. but don't have the quickest/fastest stock turbo without weight reduction, on a stock ecu, with a stock FMIC, etc. People are just making up there own records....I have "the fastest blue evo on a stock motor with just an exhaust and no flash" At this rate the records will be endless.


Keith

 

I understand what you said and agree with most of it. The point, however, was sanctioning rules that some live by and others don't either have the sanctioning rules, or disregard them. We're not talking about records or how many there are or should be or variations there of. The point is to simply say that when comparisons are made of stock turbo times or mph, the differences should be taken into account.

 

I understand where you are coming from. NHRA requires a catch pan, driveshaft loop, sfi engine dampner, scattershield, etc. It all adds weight. But there is nothing stopping you from taking weight out of OKIX's car just like the cars from PR or adding NOS. OKIX's car is an RS which is already lighter then a GSR or MR and it has lightweight front and rear brakes with hoosiers and 15" lightweight rims. I bet even with the cage it is not that much heavier then the PR cars.

Keith

 

well i have the fastest 2003 evo 8 with a 05 cup holder........ im keeping my record

 

And you should be proud of that record.

 

If I wanted to do that, believe me, I'd be doing it. It's not his car, nor any individual car that I'm addressing. It's the comparisons that are made by some, without fully understanding the reasons. Why would you assume that we're talking about his car? Some people are capable of understanding the original post, and as proven, some are not. Again, please stay on topic of sanctioning rules vs options. The PR posts are only examples of the reasons I started the topic. You must not agree about the differences or not able to understand them. Do you see the difference between Sanctioning Body Regulations and having an option to disregard them? In the U.S., unless the track is privately rented, you're more than likely limited to NHRA or NDRA regulations require. A very recent post mentioned being kicked out because he ran under 11.50, now, he HAS to get a cage to race. That wouldn't be addressed in PR. They continue running until they 'break a record'. As far as the OKIX car, I don't have to back down on it's own merits at all. It does OK, thank you very much. Not too many Greens performing at it's level, and by the way, it was done under Sanctioning Body Rules. If I want to rent a track and pull weight, I'm able to do that, but that's not the topic here.

 

Locally you will get a couple passes in before being warned, then booted. Most of the time they don't hassel you until ya go sub 11's. I understand this, and will be doing the necessary parts come spring IF I hit 11.49. Hell, on my 11.85 pass I did not even have a helmet on! Not a word said. I guess just depends on the people working (mostly young kids at our track) and if they are paying attention.

Personally I would like to see the limit lowered again. Not too long ago it was 11.99. With cars like the Evo, Terminators, LS1's etc... 11.49 is alot easier to hit then it used to be. As new cars get faster stock and safety standards get stricter, the need for a cage for safety sake goes down.

SQ

 

Nuked, I agree with you. The cars handle so much better than they did even 15 years ago. The new cars are built around safer and better parts. I guess the problem is mostly with the older cars not having the same quality of parts, as far as factory safety is concerned. Look at motorcycles, (which I used to race in the 70's), running without protection around them. I don't think an 11 second car is any less safe for the driver than a 9 second motorcycle.

 

The fact that I have a 1G DSM that I compete with in the NHRA SPRWD class and all the local import events (summer slam, ISS, etc) I FULLY understand the rules. That is the reason I chose to put in my 9 second cage before I ever ran 9's. So believe me, I know about rules. As per NHRA rules, methanol is a power adder, just like NOS. VP import is not allowed in the sportsman classes. Its only allowed in Q16 and all the pro classes. It doesn't matter if one car has a cage or not. It still ran the time. It's not like they ran it in front of their house with a G-tech. The record should be for that turbo....period. Who cares if its with an AEM, a stock motor, slicks, street tires, lightenend, full weight, no rear brakes....etc. So should Buschur's Black car not have the MPH record because Dan Buschur doesnt have his 9 second license? Absolutely not.....who cares, they have a timeslip that shows they ran their time. That's all that matters. It doesn't matter if you do it at a track rental....event....or on a regular drag day. The time slip is all that matter. So do we need to have a record for cars that have all the safety equipment and cars that don't? Its going to get too complicated. We might as well just have a record for cars with slick, cars with dot tires, cars with radials, etc.
I never said bad about OKIX's car. Its running really fast for a green and that great. But there are other cars that have run 10.9, 11.0, etc. Put some VP import and Hoosiers on those cars and see what they run. The point is that you will never have all cars being equal. People can tell you that their car weighs 3,xxxlbs, unless your at the scales when its weighed you don't know if that is what it weighs for sure. Same thing with boost, gas, etc.

Keith

 

Keith, I don't think were disagreeing. The topic of the post was to point out that some of the cars will NEVER run the same times as others. I think you would agree that the rules that you race under in the U.S. are not the same as those used in PR or US outlaw tracks. That's all. We're not talking about records, although you have stayed on that subject. My post was to those not understanding why they can't get the same times. Also, as just recently mentioned in a 'Stock Turbo' thread, the turbo was modifed with a larger turbine. We don't call that stock here as referenced by another thread I started a couple of months ago. It was common belief by about everyone posting, that a 20G-LT is not stock because of the larger turbine, yet it's being referenced as 'Stock' in the PR thread. I don't think in any way that Ronald in PR is trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes. It's just the difference of what they consider stock vs what the US mainland may consider stock. I also have noticed that there is no reference to Nitrous in a signature of RaceMan when he ran the 10.84, but he has open said it in several posts. Again, just a difference in what's considered worth mentioning vs just expected. Even in Ronalds thread, a couple of posters immediately felt that Nitrous was used. Why? Because it's normal in PR, but not mentioned by all who post their times. In this case, Ronald didn't use Nitrous, but did use a larger turbine. It's not a put down to anyone, just a difference in what's normal for the area and what is required and not required by track rules.

 

There is supposed to be a NHRA track coming here soon. I really don't want to put a cage in my car, so I hope I don't run faster than 11.5

 

Naw, just run faster than 11.5 and give them a reason to impose the rules on you. That'll give you something for conversation.

 

The problem is that there are so many different events/rules. Some street classes only allow radials, others allow Hoosiers. Some have a minimum weight of 2900 for a 4cly AWD, some 2600lbs, etc. There are so many different classes, etc that it is hard to follow the rules for just one class/series (ie, Nopi, BOTI, IDRC, etc)

Keith

 

100% agreed. The Import Face-Off's have their own set of rules that don't necessarily follow the 'normal' track rules, vs BIG EVENT rules. I didn't notice it so much in the 60's and 70s, but it seems that since I got back into the performance arena, I've noticed it more in the last few years. Maybe it's just me and my old age, but then again not remembering everything I did isn't so bad. Thanks for your discussion. I think many good points were made.