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heel toe

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Old Oct 2, 2008 | 01:57 PM
  #16  
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Once you get comfortable with the basics, try varying the rpm ranges of the shifts. For instance, if you are comfortable heel/toe shifting on a Sunday drive, you might get tripped-up using the technique at a race track. E.g. throttle characteristics when slowing on the street from 3rd gear to 2nd gear in a turn will be different than on a racetrack from the top of 4th gear to the middle of 2nd gear into Turn 1.
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Old Oct 2, 2008 | 02:19 PM
  #17  
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Easiest way to practice: Sit with your car on in neutral with the brake held down... practice bliping the gas while maintaining brake control.

Once you have that down.. and im assuming you can shift down / up on command...
practice it not on curves etc but when coming to a stop at a light - when you want to reduce speed just brake a little, w/ clutch in, shift, blip and keep braking... you should be one gear lower and be ready to pounce on the gas....

I would get that down before trying it around a curve - maybe not so bad w/ the EVO... but try messing up a heeltoe in a G35 lol - over rev = 360 and too late = good bye front bumper
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Old Oct 2, 2008 | 02:19 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by scarab944
Once you get comfortable with the basics, try varying the rpm ranges of the shifts. For instance, if you are comfortable heel/toe shifting on a Sunday drive, you might get tripped-up using the technique at a race track. E.g. throttle characteristics when slowing on the street from 3rd gear to 2nd gear in a turn will be different than on a racetrack from the top of 4th gear to the middle of 2nd gear into Turn 1.
Thats a very interesting point that a lot of ppl dont realize... but if you are a manual fanatic... you will get it in time
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Old Oct 14, 2008 | 08:55 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by MATT@WORKS
There are many differences between what people say about heal toe, but in general, this is how its done, and how I do it:

First off, you should already have a really good feel for the brakes at threshold and how the car reacts to blips for downshifting. Be an expert at rev-matching and threshold braking before you try to combine the two with one foot!

My problem was when I first started I thought too much about the same foot doing two tasks and got bound up. If you think a little more fluidly, the problem goes away. Eventually your brain simply sees the 3 tasks it has to complete and in how much time and your feet do them however necessary.

So under hard braking, I usually have my foot almost upright, as if I wasn't going to heal toe and was just braking as usual. I then rotate my heal out keeping the ball of my foot and maybe 3 toes still putting pressure on the brake pedal. The ideal is to change the angle of your ankle without changing the pressure on the pedal-- this is extremely important while threshold braking in a car with no ABS. Clutch in, and blip. It takes some practice, but basically you want to clip the accelerator with the end of your heal. You don't want to hit it with much more than the very end of the heal so that you're not getting any feedback from the accelerator, you want all the pedal feel to come from the brakes. The angle of your foot depends on how close the pedals are and where the transmission tunnel sits compared to the accelerator. Sometimes you don't use much angle at all and its no longer heal toe but left side/right side [of foot].

This is where you gear down. This is something you DON'T want to rush, especially on an Evo. People get so bound up kicking pedals that they jam the next gear in and snap off the clutch. That's not right and why trannies go out so often on cars driven "spiritedly". Again, practice feeling out the synchros without involving the brake and try to replicate that while heal-toe-ing. It might be worth it to go practice concentrating JUST on the downshift and making the brakes a little rougher until you can manage shifting delicately.

Anyway, on clutch out, the rev-match should have made NO difference in longitudinal acceleration (or deceleration in this case)-- no jerking or bucking and no lunging. This is VERY important. You can really botch a braking zone if you misplace a clutch-out or rev-match. The Evo's have it easy because all four wheels are being powered, but imagine you have a nice well balanced RWD car and you slip the clutch out and lock the rear wheels while at threshold braking on all four... its a mess.

Practice Practice Practice in many different cars-- as many as you can get your hands (and feet) on. They are ALL different, even in the same make. As you get more experienced, you can usually start to increase your learning curve and get better faster at learning cars.

There... that detailed enough for you?
Thanks Matt
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Old Oct 16, 2008 | 06:42 PM
  #20  
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watch any Best Motoring/Hot Version DVD and learn from some of the best.
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Old Oct 16, 2008 | 09:01 PM
  #21  
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Actually, yes and no. They usually seem to be WAY dramatic with their heel toe. I'm not saying they're wrong, but it often doesn't need to be that flamboyant. Of course they also are like redlining street cars on downshifts which isn't super necessary either! Good examples of what it is anyway.

Last edited by MATT@WORKS; Oct 16, 2008 at 09:04 PM.
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Old Oct 22, 2008 | 11:25 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by MATT@WORKS
Here, not trying to toot my own horn, but this is heal-toe in a STOCK H-PATTERN BMW. It has a light clutch and flywheel, but you can see what's possible with practice and how fast you can be, even smoothly, if you get the hang of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAO-R7x1Vbo

P.S. Ignore how loose the car is... it was scary.
Wow - you are a *machine*! I haven't seen blips that precise in a very long time. It was like watching someone play Gran Turismo driving a car modded with the super duper racing transmission.

How do you manage to get the shift fork to move that fast? Do you just have really great synchros?

Or are you unbelievably fast and you're actually double-clutching that heel-toe in the video?
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Old Oct 22, 2008 | 11:50 PM
  #23  
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Lol... I smell a liiiiittle bit of sarcasm, but its actually just a stock E36 M3 transmission with some nice oil in it and a SUPER light weight Tilton clutch and flywheel. I LOVE it. People have asked if I have a sequential gearbox and they can't believe its a stock part.

Thanks though (?)
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Old Oct 23, 2008 | 10:50 AM
  #24  
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Practice makes perfect.
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Old Oct 26, 2008 | 11:46 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by MATT@WORKS
Lol... I smell a liiiiittle bit of sarcasm, but its actually just a stock E36 M3 transmission with some nice oil in it and a SUPER light weight Tilton clutch and flywheel. I LOVE it. People have asked if I have a sequential gearbox and they can't believe its a stock part.

Thanks though (?)
No sarcasm intended whatsoever; I was (and still am) very impressed.

I can get how the clutch & flywheel make a big difference with the throttle blips but in terms of the actual gear selection, that's all about the oil in the tranny, correct?

Do you memorize how many revs you should be doing at a certain speed in the next lower gear or is it purely muscle memory in terms of how much to blip the throttle?
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Old Oct 27, 2008 | 02:37 AM
  #26  
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Well thanks. And yeah, it seems its mostly the gear oil. I couldn't believe it myself until I put in a replacement with an E36 M3 part number. I had an M3 at the time and the difference is absolutely remarkable.

To be 100% honest, I have no idea, I think its mostly muscle memory and a good guess every once in a while. I never look at the revs really. When learning a new car, I try to get used to how big the gaps are in gearing, so if I know 4nd to 3rd isn't very steep, I'll give it less blip than 3th to 2th. But again, I'm not REALLY sure, practice makes perfect and I've been driving that car for a while now!
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Old Oct 27, 2008 | 08:06 AM
  #27  
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i know when everyone talks about heel-toe they always say to use the ball of your foot on the break and then your heel to blip the accelerater. it is then wrong if you do that opposite, using your heel on the break and using the ball of your foot or your toes to blip the gas pedal?

Don
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Old Oct 27, 2008 | 01:59 PM
  #28  
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Well not necessarily. The point of it is to get your downshifting done under braking so you're in the right gear when you jump to gas to exit the corner. Whatever you do to make this happen without losing brake pedal accuracy is a fine technique. You also need to be able to switch quickly onto the accelerator without being too goofy about it.
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Old Oct 28, 2008 | 09:15 PM
  #29  
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sweet! thanks. i was tryin this a while ago (heel on the gas) and i found that for me to twist my ankle and leg to get to that position i dont seem to "flow" very well under the dash and steering column. Personally it feels much better to have my heel on the break and my toes on the gas. i guess to each his own ya? hahah

Thanks again,
Don
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Old Oct 29, 2008 | 01:04 AM
  #30  
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Exactly, whatever works. Just keep in mind that some cars have the brake hanging pretty high up compared to the accelerator, and in BMWs, the accelerator is mounted on the floor. This may cause problems with your style, best to maybe learn both ways?
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