Yes, but those so-called profesional drivers posting on the board shouldn't have to brag about themselves, nor claim that others are not up to their skill level. Professional drivers let their driving speak for itself, period. And you certainly don't have to bag on other drivers to make yourself look better.

I recently worked with Bryan Herta and I never once heard him brag about his driving skills, he just went out and did it, and put up the big numbers. He was extremely humble, quietly doing his job testing cars (street cars no-less) he'd never driven before and pushing them toward the two hundred mile per hour range. When it came time to running standard instrumented tests, like acceleration, braking, slalom, skidpad he watched on the sideline as the regular test driver ran the numbers. He didn't say, I could do that better. That's respect. Just because you have talent as a driver doesn't mean you are the end all, know all, best out there.

By the way, Shiv, Dave is more than just a "good solid driver". He's won on the professional level and, to me, that takes more than just a good solid driver. As the saying goes, "with friends like you, who needs friends like you."

 

Neil, you're funny. Paul has been on this forum for over a year. He has refused to ever acknowledge what he does for a living until just recently. Read his old posts and see for yourself. At the suggestion of many who actually know who he is, he has finally starting particpating in driving related threads such as this one. Since he teaches for a living, you can imagine who restless he gets with misinformation gets spread to newbies. And due to the everyone-is-equal nature of the internet, it is sometimes necessary for knowledgable folks such as Scott and Paul to provide their background info.

So if you want to argue that my pal Dave is more of a driver than Paul, go ahead and knock yourself out. Coleman and I will joke about it when we go full contact karting together at Dromo next week

Shiv

 

Honestly guys, Shiv and Paul are right. Paul only mentioned what he did after it became clear that it needed to be differentiated between those that do this (and seemingly do it well) on many weekends, and those that do it professionally, for a living. I only mentioned what I did in response to the "are there any real (Harvard ) engineers here?"

Robi, it is great that you have done so well, but I, like Paul, just want other people to know that the whole "Do not trailbrake" thing is just SOME people's opinions.

The only reason I opened this thread was to see what the big deal about trail-braking was. Like Paul, it's just something you do on some corners. What's the big deal? We teach it to first-timers on the track. Certainly you teach that it can spin you, but so can the throttle in some cars... When we saw that some people were saying "Do NOT" do it, then we both felt necessary to chime in and say that many cars in many corners (not all) will be faster utlizing the tool of trail-braking. The closer you get to stock (like many of the people reading this) the more trail-braking you are likely to have to do....

Really, on most cars, the whole trail it in, but be on the thottle before the late apex, is a basic driving technique.

 

Shiv, I never questioned the skills of Paul or Scott, just the Shiv-like attitude of Paul, bragging about his skills, trying to prove on paper that he is a better driver than Robi. Where's the respect? Paul knows what he's done in his carreer, but that doesn mean he has to put it in Robi's face to say, look at me I'm the better driver, I know better.

Funny that I respect what Dave has done more so than his so-called friend. I wasn't saying Dave is world-class but he certainly is better than a "solid good driver." Like I said, "with friends like you, who needs friends like you."

 

What do you mean by this Neil?

 

Can we stop the pissing match please. Paul is a pro and does this for a living, Robi does this on the weekends for fun. One get's paid the other pays to do it so who do you think is better? What I really want is what is the fastest way to get around Road Atlanta lin a evo

 

You can learn from both of them. Just because Paul is a paid driver doesn't mean he is the better driver. They are both skilled drivers who have something to teach, heck they could both probably teach each other some things. You never stop learning new skills, techniques, etc. when you drive, even professionals are always willing to try something new and to learn to improve.

 

That is true, just like Paul Mumford used to wax the pro's day in and day out in his Viper. But from what I know he trail breaks lolrof.

 

Ok...so here's probably a question that might have to go in a different thread, but I'll put it here for now.

Paul (or others so-inclined to answer)... what do you feel for on initial turn-in after hard braking is done to know the car is going to do what you want it to do mid-corner, and coming out?

Thanks,

jcnel.

 

I feel the pressure of the inside thumb on the steering wheel. Right turn = right thumb. I'll let the experts tell you why...

 

Thanks for the inital comment Robi...but I've been kinda a 'thumbless' driver. It comes from my older non-power-steering Jeep days in that if you put the thumbs 'locked' on the wheel and you 'wreck' you end up with broken or dislocated thumbs. What's everybody's take on this?

Thanks,

jcnel.

 

when I off-road too and keep my thumbs out of the steering wheel spokes too!

 

Where did I Brag about myself? (other than reluctantly giving some credentials when I was called out the last time) not bragging, I hate doing it because it makes you sound like an *** but I was left with little chioce if this productive/fun thread was to continue (as I hope it will again).

My comments about Dave Colman were not intended to make myself look better. It was an explanation of why they would like a loose car. I stand by it. I love Dave he is one of the best journalists in the industry and I regret saying anything that could be perceived as an insult, it was not intended that way. I hate the implication it is not fair...

 

Where did I say that? Even after several attacks (inlcluding this one). I have stayed away from flaming back. I sure do poke sticks at people to get them to respond in more detail but that is part of the process. I get jabbed plenty BTW. I am not trying to prove on paper I am better (what is the point). I am trying to prove our technique is better "on paper"

You must doubt my sincerity here. You are thinking why would he want to help? What’s in it for him. Why would he want to make Robi faster. It's going to sound corny but I love to teach advanced driving. I have helped competitors countless times at the track all my life, it may not be so smart but as you can tell...I can't shut up!

I am learning the perils of trying this on the internet. If we were all sitting in a classroom togeather this stuff would never happen. We would all leave virtually life long friends. We would work through all this much quicker as well

 

the internet SUCKS as a forum for trying to express anything of any emotional depth or congruence, because everything that is conveyed has a fatalistic sort of determinance that generally provokes animosity. I'm finding this out in a personal manner due to some ill advised reponses I have posted myself. Emotion and the internet is a bad thing, I'm as guilty as anybody when it comes to succumbing to the perils of arguing in cyberspace.

Percy