Looking at Knock in Data Logs
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally Posted by jj_008
Shiv is not saying to buy a piggyback, but to find a better way to log knock more effectively. At 3800rpm you are only getting 19% of the actual data. How would you know if the other 80% didn't have knock or just an outlier? There is high chance of getting a false positive w/ such low rate.
I think I have fairly effective ways of logging knock now - which is why out of over 2,000 evo ecu's I have tuned there are ZERO reports of tuning related engine failure of any kind
Thanks for your opinions.
My question is - if Shiv's products and ideas were so great then why are all of his customers so slow ?
Al, it is not wise for you to shoot down best practices and the theories behind them...
This is what the VP of Engineering of Innovate designers of the LM-1 system has to say about the subject:
If only we all used the scientific method ....
This is what the VP of Engineering of Innovate designers of the LM-1 system has to say about the subject:
Originally Posted by Innovatemotorsport Forum Post by Klattin
Hi,
Accoustic knock sensing via knock sensors is a fairly complicated subject. Knock sensors are basically ruggedized microphones. The actual knock detection is done in the ECU electronics by "listening" to engine specific knock frequencies during the time knock can occur (typically between TDC and 70 deg ATDC). A knock sensor by itself does not detect knock. Therefore it's output can't be logged with an LMA-2 or other logger. An equivalence would be a spark-plug. By itself it does not ignite a mixture. You need a coil and a way to charge that coil and fire it at the right instant.
Regards,
Klaus
Innovatemotorsport Forum Post by Klattin
Hi,
See this thread for details why the LM-1 does not interface with knock sensors: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...=&threadid=474 which is basically the answer bellow.
Accoustic knock sensing via knock sensors is a fairly complicated subject. Knock sensors are basically ruggedized microphones. The actual knock detection is done in the ECU electronics by "listening" to engine specific knock frequencies during the time knock can occur (typically between TDC and 70 deg ATDC). A knock sensor by itself does not detect knock. Therefore it's output can't be logged with an LMA-2 or other logger. An equivalence would be a spark-plug. By itself it does not ignite a mixture. You need a coil and a way to charge that coil and fire it at the right instant.
Regards,
Klaus
Innovatemotorsport Forum Post by Klattin
Hi,
See this thread for details why the LM-1 does not interface with knock sensors: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...=&threadid=474 which is basically the answer bellow.
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally Posted by Jorge T
Al, it is not wise for you to shoot down best practices and the theories behind them...
This is what the VP of Engineering of Innovate designers of the LM-1 system has to say about the subject:
If only we all used the scientific method ....
This is what the VP of Engineering of Innovate designers of the LM-1 system has to say about the subject:
If only we all used the scientific method ....
This is why i am one of the few people who have gone 9 seconds in my evo
I guess my question is: If there were additional/larger knock events within the data logging interval, wouldn't we see the stock ECU pulling some timing? Can we assume that the absence of timing retard, in conjunction with the knock voltage below 1 (albeit at only a rate of 12/sec) is a pretty good indication that knock is at accepable levels?
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Rather than listing to negative arm chair quarter backs who like to tell everyone why you cant do something, I prefer to just go out and do it
This is why i am one of the few people who have gone 9 seconds in my evo
This is why i am one of the few people who have gone 9 seconds in my evo
Originally Posted by Jim_Patterson
My suggestion is Shiv should stick to preaching in his own vendor section and stay out of this one, all he brings is drama.
Al, are you running these 9 second quarter mile times with your dynoflash?
Back to my question I asked earlier,
After the ecu sences >1vdc knock and runs a rich program, does it revert back to the normal tuned state after the WOT pull (with knock) is completed or after the ecu is reset from battery disconnection?
After the ecu sences >1vdc knock and runs a rich program, does it revert back to the normal tuned state after the WOT pull (with knock) is completed or after the ecu is reset from battery disconnection?
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally Posted by dohcvtec
Only drama I see is Al's defense of "my car does 9 seconds". Shiv is just stating facts. This seems to frighten Al as he has no real response.
Al, are you running these 9 second quarter mile times with your dynoflash?
Al, are you running these 9 second quarter mile times with your dynoflash?
The Vishnu contigent is akin to a academic who resides at the top of a tall ivory tower pontificating about theories which have little application in the real world
The results I see are rather disappointing - but great rethoric
Originally Posted by dohcvtec
Only drama I see is Al's defense of "my car does 9 seconds". Shiv is just stating facts. This seems to frighten Al as he has no real response.
Al, are you running these 9 second quarter mile times with your dynoflash?
Al, are you running these 9 second quarter mile times with your dynoflash?
Its pretty much the normal Shiv comming into Als thread and trying to persuade everyone into believing that Al doesnt know what hes doing and that Al is doing things the wrong way.
Its pretty common.
So Shiv,
How do you monitor knock on your non-xede based X-flash?
How do you monitor knock on your non-xede based X-flash?
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Not only that, but those 12 instantaneous samples in that one second aren't going to be timed to listen during the small portion of the combustion cycle that knock occurs. So it's a crap shoot anyway you look at it. That's why they make det cans since most human brains can sample a lot faster 
shiv
shiv
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by nefblkevo
So Shiv,
How do you monitor knock on your non-xede based X-flash?
How do you monitor knock on your non-xede based X-flash?
Shiv
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From: York, Pa
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
The Vishnu contigent is akin to a academic who resides at the top of a tall ivory tower pontificating about theories which have little application in the real world
I wouldn't worry about it Al. You've got alot more people that have been tuned by you that are quite happy with the results, than those that aren't. Including me.
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Through det cans, plain and simple. Nothing too special.. pretty common in the tuning world. In fact, a set came with my dyno
Shiv
Shiv
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by JTB
How does one use det cans during a road tune?
The control box runs on a 9v battery and the microphone lead is 15' long.-shiv
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Through det cans, plain and simple. Nothing too special.. pretty common in the tuning world. In fact, a set came with my dyno
Shiv
Shiv
BTW - many of your former customers who have been flashed by you have stated that on your roaving dyno days they did not see you with any det cans - (only hot looking young laides)
what is the real story ?