300.7 Whp / 287.5 Wtq
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Yes, he crushed it, but that didn't change the weird boost fluctuations.
The MBC has been taken apart several times and was also oiled. Doing this only helps with the boost spike issue that happened to a few people, but Josh has a completely different problem that I've never heard of nor seen before. His boost goes up, then drops, then slowly climbs back up again. From what Chris described, his did the same thing on the dyno, which is why he hit peak boost at 4750 instead of 3250. We plan on doing boost leak tests, but we also are going to switch my old Hallman Pro on there to see if the same characteristics exist. If so, then we'll re-install the UNOS and do a pressure test. If nothing comes of that, we'll check the install of the hoses and such.
The MBC has been taken apart several times and was also oiled. Doing this only helps with the boost spike issue that happened to a few people, but Josh has a completely different problem that I've never heard of nor seen before. His boost goes up, then drops, then slowly climbs back up again. From what Chris described, his did the same thing on the dyno, which is why he hit peak boost at 4750 instead of 3250. We plan on doing boost leak tests, but we also are going to switch my old Hallman Pro on there to see if the same characteristics exist. If so, then we'll re-install the UNOS and do a pressure test. If nothing comes of that, we'll check the install of the hoses and such.
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
the graph shows exactly how the boost is behaving. This is what Josh has been saying. It ramps up without spiking, lowers slightly, then rises back up before doing the natural taper. I'm certain that if the boost spiked normally that the WTQ would be over 300 without question, and that dip wouldn't be there right at 3500. It's amazing how early the turbo spools with the MIVEC head.
Just to be sure, this was in 3rd gear, right?
Just to be sure, this was in 3rd gear, right?
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
He may benefot from custom tuning as he is currently on a base flash
I LOVE the way the car feels, but the base flash could be improved to address the boost issue and AFR -- in the end you and your product will look better. We set the car up exactly to your recommendations (MBC vs. stock) and we were under the impression that you had developed the flash specifically for the setup. If not, I would have done the custom tune. There is definitely something going on with the boost (dual spike); as well as AFR at the high end.
Again, I am not attacking you or the flash and really like the results (for the most part). I think this is an evolution
, and that you may want to address the AFR and boost issue in a revision (just my $0.02). Thanks a ton for helping all of us push the envelope.
For reference (and to show how much more powerful the IX is), here's my Evo VIII on the exact same dyno (albeit almost 2 years ago...), with BR stg. 1 and Dynoflash. BTW, this Mustang reads a little lower than Dynojets in the area, which seem to run lower than others who post one here. Sorry for the smudge... I guess they use an inkjet printer 
Originally Posted by cij911
Al, Come on please....
I LOVE the way the car feels, but the base flash could be improved to address the boost issue and AFR -- in the end you and your product will look better. We set the car up exactly to your recommendations (MBC vs. stock) and we were under the impression that you had developed the flash specifically for the setup. If not, I would have done the custom tune. There is definitely something going on with the boost (dual spike); as well as AFR at the high end.
Again, I am not attacking you or the flash and really like the results (for the most part). I think this is an evolution , and that you may want to address the AFR and boost issue in a revision (just my $0.02). Thanks a ton for helping all of us push the envelope.
I LOVE the way the car feels, but the base flash could be improved to address the boost issue and AFR -- in the end you and your product will look better. We set the car up exactly to your recommendations (MBC vs. stock) and we were under the impression that you had developed the flash specifically for the setup. If not, I would have done the custom tune. There is definitely something going on with the boost (dual spike); as well as AFR at the high end.
Again, I am not attacking you or the flash and really like the results (for the most part). I think this is an evolution
, and that you may want to address the AFR and boost issue in a revision (just my $0.02). Thanks a ton for helping all of us push the envelope.
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Chris, the boost is not controlled by the flash, so that's a separate issue. The only question is the rise of the AFRs back to 12 at high rpm after dipping to 11.3 (as it should).
As always, thanks for clarifying....Could the MIVEC be doing something funky to affect the boost?
Originally Posted by cij911
As always, thanks for clarifying....Could the MIVEC be doing something funky to affect the boost?
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
I'm certainly no expert on MIVEC, but I don't think so. Since the boost system is independent of the ECU and/or the MIVEC, then it shouldn't make a difference. Other IXs with boost controllers have not shown this characteristic.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Gentlemen - I have given specific troubleshooting requests above, I would suggest you gho through them.
What else are you suggesting? Logging the timing? Warr - you have a logger for that? Can get that through OBDII, right? Are you suggesting that pulled timing might have something to do with the boost fluctuations or was the 'try logging timing' comment meant to address a possible cause for the lean spike at 6800?
Rob, it comes with the mail-in if you request it, but it is an extra cost, I believe.
Josh, yes, I have a pocketlogger that can be connected to the diagnostic port to log timing. I think what Al was referring to was the dip in power near boost spike area. A timing dip would cause a resultant dip in power like that, but I don't think he realized that we have already said that the boost gauge is showing a corresponding rise, lowering, and then another rise before hitting the natural taper. The hp curve shows this exact tendency, so I don't think it's a timing issue - we can log it to be sure.
The lean spike at 6800 shouldn't have anything to do with timing, so I'm not sure what's up with that unless the tailpipe sniffer is reading leaner than actual like we usually see. When guys at the Dyno Day logged on the street with their widebands, they saw about half a point lower on the road than on the dyno with the tailpipe sniffer. I don't know how Curry's does it or how close theirs reads to actual, though. My logger will show timing and o2 volts up top to give an idea of the AFRs. It won't show exact wideband AFRs, but it will give us an idea.
Josh, yes, I have a pocketlogger that can be connected to the diagnostic port to log timing. I think what Al was referring to was the dip in power near boost spike area. A timing dip would cause a resultant dip in power like that, but I don't think he realized that we have already said that the boost gauge is showing a corresponding rise, lowering, and then another rise before hitting the natural taper. The hp curve shows this exact tendency, so I don't think it's a timing issue - we can log it to be sure.
The lean spike at 6800 shouldn't have anything to do with timing, so I'm not sure what's up with that unless the tailpipe sniffer is reading leaner than actual like we usually see. When guys at the Dyno Day logged on the street with their widebands, they saw about half a point lower on the road than on the dyno with the tailpipe sniffer. I don't know how Curry's does it or how close theirs reads to actual, though. My logger will show timing and o2 volts up top to give an idea of the AFRs. It won't show exact wideband AFRs, but it will give us an idea.
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
My logger will show timing and o2 volts up top to give an idea of the AFRs. It won't show exact wideband AFRs, but it will give us an idea.
Just some info on 02 volts.
According to my logs, the narrowband 02 is not to be trusted. Look how the narrowband changes in relation to the wideband AFR:
0.94 11.3
0.95 11.4
0.94 11.2
0.95 11.5
0.95 11.9
I cut and paste these of course, my wideband wasn't swinging around that quickly, there are alot more data points inbetween.
My point is that the narrowband 02 volts is not to be trusted since it does not change much even with huge changes to the wideband AFR, and sometimest the changes can be deceiving.
Last edited by razorlab; Jan 24, 2006 at 01:12 PM.