Question on the custome tune for IX's
Question on the custome tune for IX's
What's up, guyz.
I am in the process of searching for the tuner to tune my car. The car has TBE and a drop-in filter. I am not planning to get a boost controller, rather let the stock ecu to contol the boost through the flash. As I was doing some researches, came across a couple of Q's pertaining to the dynoflash:
1) Can the dynoflash control the boost through the flash itself? (I am asking this Q, cuz I see that almost every dynoflashed cars have boost controllers.)
2) How much whp will I be losing by not having a boost controller to prevent the tapering in upper RPMs? What's more, what is the approximate range of whp/tq gains after the flash w/o the boost controller?
3) What changes does Al or dynoflash make to the mivec tables, if any? (I am assuming that Dynoflash is based on the tachtom, please correct me if I am wrong.)
4) Is a boost controller the 'MUST' when you go w/ the 'Dynoflash'?
If there is anything else that you guyz feel that I need to know, please don't hesitate to give some feedbacks. Thank you guyz.
I am in the process of searching for the tuner to tune my car. The car has TBE and a drop-in filter. I am not planning to get a boost controller, rather let the stock ecu to contol the boost through the flash. As I was doing some researches, came across a couple of Q's pertaining to the dynoflash:
1) Can the dynoflash control the boost through the flash itself? (I am asking this Q, cuz I see that almost every dynoflashed cars have boost controllers.)
2) How much whp will I be losing by not having a boost controller to prevent the tapering in upper RPMs? What's more, what is the approximate range of whp/tq gains after the flash w/o the boost controller?
3) What changes does Al or dynoflash make to the mivec tables, if any? (I am assuming that Dynoflash is based on the tachtom, please correct me if I am wrong.)
4) Is a boost controller the 'MUST' when you go w/ the 'Dynoflash'?
If there is anything else that you guyz feel that I need to know, please don't hesitate to give some feedbacks. Thank you guyz.
Last edited by ROK EVO; Jun 14, 2006 at 02:54 PM.
I had the boost controlling flash on my IX and it was great. It was set to spike to 21psi and it would gradually taper down at higher rpms to around 17psi (still does it now when I have an MBC controlling boost), so I'm not sure if you'll gain anything.
Not sure if you'll gain power by getting an MBC over the boost controlling flash. I honestly can't tell a difference whatsoever in power, just that I can set my own boost however I want.
I don't think a boost controller is a must. Like I said, I was happy with my flash controlling boost, but later on I wanted more control. I still have my stock lines just in case if I want to go back to it, but not sure.
Hope this helps.
Not sure if you'll gain power by getting an MBC over the boost controlling flash. I honestly can't tell a difference whatsoever in power, just that I can set my own boost however I want.
I don't think a boost controller is a must. Like I said, I was happy with my flash controlling boost, but later on I wanted more control. I still have my stock lines just in case if I want to go back to it, but not sure.
Hope this helps.
Rnm,
I actually don't mind the tapering and I also don't plan to extract every last bit of whp from the tune. Instead, the reliability and consistency of tune is more important to me. I am glad that you were satisfied with your boost controlling flash. Good to hear that. But why so low on the boost setting though? 21 psi seems way too conservative with these cars,. Were you tuned on 91 oct or something? Thanks for sharing your experience.
I actually don't mind the tapering and I also don't plan to extract every last bit of whp from the tune. Instead, the reliability and consistency of tune is more important to me. I am glad that you were satisfied with your boost controlling flash. Good to hear that. But why so low on the boost setting though? 21 psi seems way too conservative with these cars,. Were you tuned on 91 oct or something? Thanks for sharing your experience.
1) Yes, all flashes have boost control built-in. They can't physically raise the boost to whatever psi you want, but they give you around 20-21psi and remove most of the stock taper inherently.
2) You don't really lose much - it's basically the same. The problem is that you can't raise the boost or ever change it if you rely on the flash. IXs can run higher boost than VIIIs on pump gas due to the coolant passages in the head that deter knock, and you can't raise the boost to 22-23psi like you'd want unless you have an MBC. The only way to do that with a flash is to do boost hose modifications - this is how other tuners get the boost higher without an MBC. I don't like relying on boost hose modifications, but you can do that if you want. Al knows how to do that, if requested.
3) The specific MIVEC changes are proprietary. That's why he's the tuner and gets paid. Yes, he uses TechTom, which is far cheaper for you than paying for EcuTek.
4) By no means.
5) No, 21psi is not 'way too conservative.' I don't know what's going on, but it seems as if IX owners are just getting way out of control. They don't seem to understand the basics or the history of the Evo and think that everyone should be running mega boost and making 360whp on basic mods. Yes, the IX is awesome, makes great power easily, makes more power than the VIIIs, and can run more boost than the VIIIs on pump gas, but that doesn't make it a juggernaut. You still have to keep it reliable and safe. You CAN run 22-23psi peak on 93oct with the IX, but that's still going to be less than 21psi when it tapers. You want to be reliable and consistent with your IX, you said, so I would think 21psi isn't far from where you'd want to be. 22 should be enough...
2) You don't really lose much - it's basically the same. The problem is that you can't raise the boost or ever change it if you rely on the flash. IXs can run higher boost than VIIIs on pump gas due to the coolant passages in the head that deter knock, and you can't raise the boost to 22-23psi like you'd want unless you have an MBC. The only way to do that with a flash is to do boost hose modifications - this is how other tuners get the boost higher without an MBC. I don't like relying on boost hose modifications, but you can do that if you want. Al knows how to do that, if requested.
3) The specific MIVEC changes are proprietary. That's why he's the tuner and gets paid. Yes, he uses TechTom, which is far cheaper for you than paying for EcuTek.
4) By no means.
5) No, 21psi is not 'way too conservative.' I don't know what's going on, but it seems as if IX owners are just getting way out of control. They don't seem to understand the basics or the history of the Evo and think that everyone should be running mega boost and making 360whp on basic mods. Yes, the IX is awesome, makes great power easily, makes more power than the VIIIs, and can run more boost than the VIIIs on pump gas, but that doesn't make it a juggernaut. You still have to keep it reliable and safe. You CAN run 22-23psi peak on 93oct with the IX, but that's still going to be less than 21psi when it tapers. You want to be reliable and consistent with your IX, you said, so I would think 21psi isn't far from where you'd want to be. 22 should be enough...
Originally Posted by ROK EVO
Rnm,
I actually don't mind the tapering and I also don't plan to extract every last bit of whp from the tune. Instead, the reliability and consistency of tune is more important to me. I am glad that you were satisfied with your boost controlling flash. Good to hear that. But why so low on the boost setting though? 21 psi seems way too conservative with these cars,. Were you tuned on 91 oct or something? Thanks for sharing your experience.
I actually don't mind the tapering and I also don't plan to extract every last bit of whp from the tune. Instead, the reliability and consistency of tune is more important to me. I am glad that you were satisfied with your boost controlling flash. Good to hear that. But why so low on the boost setting though? 21 psi seems way too conservative with these cars,. Were you tuned on 91 oct or something? Thanks for sharing your experience.
Warrtalon,
Thanks for answering the questions and advices. The reason, I said '21psi is conservative' is that a lot of ppl are running 23 or higher psi with these cars. Shiv from Vishnu is even running 24psi on 91 oct.
A local tuner here in MA, also stated that he runs 23psi as a conservative tune. I don't what makes IX's run so much boost (maybe the different coolant passage design?), but it seems pretty reliable being on that level. Having said that, I basically narrowed it down to 2 choices; dynoflash or Ecutek tune by a local tuner. Main-in flash is not an option for me. It's somewhat difficult to make a decision, because there is a big price difference between the 2 choices. A custom dynoflash tune is $400 and the local tuner here in MA, charges $1080 for the 2hr custom ecutek tune including the initial license fee. So, the price difference ($680) is not something to be negligible with my limited funds.
Personally, I prefer to get an Ecutek tune, because I believe that it's a better platform to tune IXs than the tachtom-based tune. Also, the local tuner I mentioned, is a very reputable tuner and known to get good results with the Ecutek tune. However, it is definitely not easy to justify the huge difference in costs when Dynoflash gets you similar results at more than half the price of the Ecutek tune. As far as the engine modification goes, the ecu tune will be my last upgrade. The car is already plenty fast, but I just want more midrange punches for the road courses. I guess, I will eventually have to make the decision, but would like to hear your opinion and advice on this. Thank you. ( I apologize for the long post)
Thanks for answering the questions and advices. The reason, I said '21psi is conservative' is that a lot of ppl are running 23 or higher psi with these cars. Shiv from Vishnu is even running 24psi on 91 oct.
A local tuner here in MA, also stated that he runs 23psi as a conservative tune. I don't what makes IX's run so much boost (maybe the different coolant passage design?), but it seems pretty reliable being on that level. Having said that, I basically narrowed it down to 2 choices; dynoflash or Ecutek tune by a local tuner. Main-in flash is not an option for me. It's somewhat difficult to make a decision, because there is a big price difference between the 2 choices. A custom dynoflash tune is $400 and the local tuner here in MA, charges $1080 for the 2hr custom ecutek tune including the initial license fee. So, the price difference ($680) is not something to be negligible with my limited funds. Personally, I prefer to get an Ecutek tune, because I believe that it's a better platform to tune IXs than the tachtom-based tune. Also, the local tuner I mentioned, is a very reputable tuner and known to get good results with the Ecutek tune. However, it is definitely not easy to justify the huge difference in costs when Dynoflash gets you similar results at more than half the price of the Ecutek tune. As far as the engine modification goes, the ecu tune will be my last upgrade. The car is already plenty fast, but I just want more midrange punches for the road courses. I guess, I will eventually have to make the decision, but would like to hear your opinion and advice on this. Thank you. ( I apologize for the long post)
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WTf, $1080?????????? What a complete ripoff? I haven't heard of any Evo specialist tuner in Mass. Are you talking about KTR in NYC or someone else? I can't imagine even considering going to a non-Evo expert to tune your IX when Dynoflash is right there near you for $400 and when he has the fastest stock turbo IX in the country with many more in the low 12s/high 11s. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Also, none of the other TOP Evo tuners (no idea who your guy is, but if he's not an Evo expert, then I don't care how well he tunes other cars) charge near as much as $1080 for EcuTek tunes.
Why do you believe EcuTek is better? It does nothing that Techtom can't do, and it also has things that aren't allowed like removal of fuel cut. What would make you think it's a better platform to tune IXs? No dynos results or track times indicate this.
Why do you believe EcuTek is better? It does nothing that Techtom can't do, and it also has things that aren't allowed like removal of fuel cut. What would make you think it's a better platform to tune IXs? No dynos results or track times indicate this.
Originally Posted by inphluence
yea what warr said... who is this local tuner in MA?!?!?!?
I've been a member of NEDSM for a few years now and NEVER heard of anyone paying that much at any of the NE area AWD dynos unless of course they were there for 10 hrs and had unlimited pulls...
The local tuner, I mentioned is KTR performance, which is in Ayer, MA. If you want to know more about them, you can go to their website (www.ktrperformance.com)
Last edited by ROK EVO; Jun 17, 2006 at 06:43 PM.
You said you believe Ecutek is better yet you do not know enough about Dynoflash and you said "the only way to properly tune a car without putting the motor on an engine dyno is on a chassis dyno", have you even heard of road tuning?
I suggest you do a little more research about Al and all the IX that he tuned.
I suggest you do a little more research about Al and all the IX that he tuned.
Jhero23,
Road tuning is great for fine tuning your acceleration map, idle, off throttle response.Period. It should only be done after a proper dyno tune on a loading dyno (dynodynamics,dynapack,rototest,DTS,mustang, etc.) not an inertia dyno. A good loading dyno can hold a steady state load at any giving rpm allowing the tuner to adjust each cell in both the ignition and fuel map. During steady state test, you can see the power go up and down as you adjust the ignition map. That's the only way you can tell if you've optimzed the ignition and fueling for that cell. There's no way in hell that you will know this by doing a road tune. Nobody's butt dyno is that sensitive plus you won't know when you've reach MBT. If you go beyond that, say hello Mr. Detonation--especially on a forced induction motor. BTW, do you think car manufacturers build a motor, throw it into a car and have one of their engineers "road tune" the ecu and call it quits?
And YES, I have heard a thing called 'Road tuning'.
Road tuning is great for fine tuning your acceleration map, idle, off throttle response.Period. It should only be done after a proper dyno tune on a loading dyno (dynodynamics,dynapack,rototest,DTS,mustang, etc.) not an inertia dyno. A good loading dyno can hold a steady state load at any giving rpm allowing the tuner to adjust each cell in both the ignition and fuel map. During steady state test, you can see the power go up and down as you adjust the ignition map. That's the only way you can tell if you've optimzed the ignition and fueling for that cell. There's no way in hell that you will know this by doing a road tune. Nobody's butt dyno is that sensitive plus you won't know when you've reach MBT. If you go beyond that, say hello Mr. Detonation--especially on a forced induction motor. BTW, do you think car manufacturers build a motor, throw it into a car and have one of their engineers "road tune" the ecu and call it quits?
And YES, I have heard a thing called 'Road tuning'.