Feb 8, 2004, I attend the Dynoflash in Houston and meet up with Big Al who did a custom Dynoflash on my car.
After my dynoflash the car was smoother then before and seems to run somewhat better.
So that day Saturday around 2pm I made an appointment with Turbocharges.com to have my car dyno.
My first pull my car was down approx. 10 hp from what I had Dyno at Alamo Autosports in Arlington Tx.
I was like WTF. I got on the phone to Al and told him what I saw.
Al said to hold on he would come down and do some tuning on the Dyno. Al got there and uploaded a more aggressive tune, and the car picked back up the 10 hp lost.
After all said and done my car made two hp more then before the dynoflash.

I did not posted anything on this because Big Al said my Pullies was causing "Knock" and he would be coming back to Houston and would be re-tuning my car.
Well now he not coming back to Houston. WTF !

I paid $550.00 for two hp. I know horsepower cost BUT 2 hp.

I'm not trying to say anything bad about Big Al, just I did not get out of the Dynoflash what I thought I should. And now Im out $550.00.



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Well after all that I went and purchased an Apex Power Fc.

I still have the pulley on the car. and did some Dyno runs.
Im very please with my results

Here are some comparison dyno sheets between my car before/after the Power FC


http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...MXk1NDE%3D.jpg


http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...MXk1NDE%3D.jpg



Thx's for letting me Vent.

Michael

 

Hi,

I'm going to move this to the dynoflash forum. Al cannot respond here which makes it a one way conversation. Also, how do you know the 10hp was simply different dyno's?

Speedlimit..

 

I don't think you are telling the whole story...Al has been preaching that the underdrive crank pulley causes problems with harmonics...however, I think he shouldn't have taken your money if he knew he couldn't do much for you. Doesn't he offer a 100% sat. guarantee?

Just ask him for it...

 

Sounds like the probable variation in two different dyno is about all you need to say… Not to mention temperature and other such variables that could make the same dyno read +/- 10HP different on any day of the week.....

 

The dyno's were the same make. I also know weather has a big role to play but it was colder in Houston that day then when I was in Arlington.

Al dose have a money back guarantee good for like 14 day s I think but I have past that by serveral days now.

Again Im not saying nothing bad about Al /or Dynoflash. Im just saying I did not get out of the Dynoflash what I thought I should.

 

Its about time we had a disatisfied customer after so many happy customers

Although we try very hard to please everyone 100% - I guess in this case we were not sucessful and for that I am sorry

The sadest thing about all of this is that now he has spent a lot more $$ on the Apexi stand alone ecu and more dyno time and he STILL is NOT making any power

Mike - I'm sorry that your're not happy man

As you know - I offered to help you in many ways - including more re-tunes through the mail and we have exchanged phone calls and emails

For those who are reading this thread - you should have all the facts - - when Mike started with me he already had one tuner's reflash product which he wasn't happy with - and we were starting with a car that was already tuned

When we started on your car it was running a a/f OVER 12.0 / 1 with your reeflash you had

Also - your car had a noticeably rough power band and was running very poor ign timing

BOTH these facts were shown to you with your own eyes - you saw the wideband read out and data loge before we started - I told you at the time IF your reflash you had was good then I would not touch it - IT WAS NOT good - it was unsafe

It was 100% possible that we could have made LESS power on your car after Dyno Flashing it as we run a more conservative level of tuning - - I was very happy we made more power safely - obviously you did not share my pleasure - thats bad - I wish i could change that, but it seems our ideas do not work well together

Even though we only made you 2 whp more - we made you a lot more trq - and we did it with a lot richer a/f ratio near 11.0 / 1 and a mich smoother and better feeling car

Please keep in mind guys - we don't build the car - we just TUNE it. I would never had recoemended a light weight crank pulley and think it is the cause of this car's weak whp level

ON THIS CAR we saw tons of dentonation and knock acticity - BOTH through the stock knock sensor and also through my own knock meter

In order to finish his tune to a safe margin I had to DE-TUNE this car by a significant level over what I am normally able to do

The WHOLE point of custom tune is to accomidate the individual car

If the car won't safely make a lot of power - I have two options - # 1 - which I did here - leave it at a safe state of tune - or # 2 go for the whp numbers even if it means hrting the engine

I wont do # 2

I knew this guy was going on the dyno the next day

I rather have him complaining that we did'nt make that much power than picking up pieces of his motor two weeks later !

When he came back from his test drive in Houston - we was very happy and AGREED in front of the evo guys there at 2:00 a.m. that the car ran a lot better than it did on the other reflash

Here are your own words from your above post

"After my dynoflash the car was smoother then before and seems to run somewhat better."

What else did you expect when going from one reflash to another ?

My THEORY for WHY his car would not make more power without detonation is - A - possible bad load of gas - or B - lightweight crank pulley in place of stock harmonic balancer

I guess we will never know as Mike did not take me up on the offer to do a few through the mail flashes on his car - take off his crank pulley and report back the results

I was happy with his results and pleased with the tune as we were able to make the same whp he had before with the other reflash while making his car run better and having a safe margin or error and rich a/f - - to me thats a sucess - don;t forget in mike's case we were starting with a car that was already tuned by another tuner - NOT a stock car

Mike - just so you know - guys with similar mods to you normally make 300 whp or more.

I STILL tHINK your dyno sheet is weak

How much did you spend on the Apexi Power ecu and tuning - I would expect to see well over 300 whp - WHY is your sheet still low ???

We have a customer today who made 360 ft lbs on the stock cams at 11.0 / 1 a/f's

I have dozens of customers who made over 300 whp with similar mods to yours

If the Works reflash did not make power on your car - if the dyno flash did not make power on your car and now if the APexi is not making power - PLESAE - think about removing the crank pulley and retuning it - it would be interesting to see the results

Best of luc wth your car - however - I think the way you made this post was not classy and I do not apprecaite it

 

You never called me to get your refund - we talked about more tuning and ways to fix your car- I would have gladly refunded you on the spot as you know

 

Also the dyno in Houston is located inside the back of a wearhouse with no ventilation and no air flow - hardly dyno record conditions

 

This is the kind of results I'd like to see you getting :

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...threadid=68981

and



That dyno sheet is from a car which had similar mods to yours - MINUS the crank pulley

Please - trust me on this - remove the crank pulley - get some decent 93 octane pump gas you can trust and go BACK and get re-tuned you should be over 300 whp with the mods you have

 

Al we have talked on the phone.

When you posted about the pulleys I called you and said maybe I sould get a part refund and you said there nothing wrong with the Dynoflash it was my pulleys. You also, said you would be coming back to Houston and would reflash my can again if I would remove the pullies. We both agreed on that, but now you post your not coming back, due to the lack of people wanting the Dynoflash. I understand you can not just come to Houston to reflash my car. So now your 2000 miles from me and I can not get what I think I should have gotten.

And this ----- I think the way you made this post was not classy and I do not apprecaite it.

Well Im sorry you don't apprecaite it. I just feel I kind of got the raw end of the deal. 2hp for $550.00 was my complant.

Im not saying Houston was the best place. But after 550.00 to you and 100.00 for dyno runs 2 hp really just sucks.


Decent gas well I run Shell 93 Octane about the best I can get.

 

As for your gas you use - I have found that in many cases the name you see at the pump is not what you get in your tank and also sometimes - someone - down the line is making a fast buck by selling low octane fuel in the high octane tank. I think its prudent to try a differnt supply for the gas and see how that effects your car.


The way I see it is basically the Works reflash on your car and my custom reflash both made virtually the same exact power. I actaully made 2 whp more but that is insignificant when factoring in dyno to dyno variance and temp changes, etc.


I am NOT offering a service where I blindly increase whp numbers.

The purpose of the custom tune is to test the operation of the car, adjust the fuel and ignition parameters to levels where the car is operating smoothly and safely and re-test the operation under real world driving conditions

In your case - what you got was much safer A/F's, a smoother running car with more spool up and better driveability and a much SAFER tune as we eliminated the detonation you were having

I think its very narrow minded to keep focusing on the 2 whp gain over the Works Flash. In reality, as I said above, you MAY have lost whp by tuning the car safer and smoother - in your case you got lucky and we actually picked up a bit. Its no easy feat to go richer in a/f's and tune out detonation and make more whp all at the same time and thats why it took so long and so many steps of fine tuning to tune your car.

Basically - (I don't remember the specific numbers) your results with the Works flash, my flash and now the Apexi power FC are all in the same range and all LESS than what they should be

One or the other may be making a few whp more than the other but they are all basically the same

IMHO - there has to be a reson WHY your car is not making the numbers it should be and obvioulsy with three different tuners all making sub par whp results the problem is not in the tune

I ASSUME (dangerous word!) - based upon my experience with tuning evos that your particular problem is related to the lightweight crank pulley becuase we have seen a patern with several evos with the same result and they all presented themselves in the same manner as your car. To reiterate - those type of pulleys enahance harmonic resonance which causes the factory knock sensor to pull timing and makle a rough power band.

HOWEVER - this is only an assumption and it is quiet possible that your car may have other mechanical or electrial problems which are causing a lack of peak whp

Wether it is in two weeks or next month, I will be returing to texas and I would love to re-tune your car without the crank pulley and show you the extra power that is just sitting there ready to be extracted. We have done this already a few times and a couple of those exmples have been posted here.

Sadly, now that you have the Apexi ecu it all seems to be a moot issue, unless you are willing to re-install the stock ecu to test my theory. Let me know.

Finally - as for your thread, I can understand your frustration with your situation - i know it must be frustrating.

 

Well I think that you may just have some problems with your car. remove the dam pulleys! see what kind of power you pickup then post hopefully better threads. To help you on a better note, I have one of the original BIG AL reflashes and haven't dyno the car but here is my time at English Town 12.9@107mph intake and blowoff valve only. I'm sorry that you wasn't happy also but try to do what is possible to get power and not make enemy.

 

i dont get it? doesnt all Evo has a base map from the factory? and aren't they all identical? if so, why couldn't you have started from scratch and loaded the stock map into the EcU and start tuning from there? if you could do that, what difference does it make if the car already has another flash in there? just wondering.

 

i don't thnk it did matter. all he said was that both reflashes ( his and works) got low numbers so the problem is not in the ecu but with the hardware (pully). he never said that he didn't get power because the car had a reflash done to it. he said thta it can be either bad gas or the pullies and he used the works flash as an example to why it can't be the flash.

 

Yes, I had the mail in reflash by Works. So now I c that Works reflash was almost as good as a Custom reflash.

The reason for the Dynoflash was this. Quote off

http://www.dynoflash.com/

Typical power gains are 20 - 25 HP and Ft Lbs at the wheels. Every car makes its own level of HP as they are all slightly unique - thats why we tune each one on the dyno to get a perfect tune - everytime!

Yellevo IM not trying to make enemy, just stating the fact that 2 hp was not what I thought I should of got out of the Dynoflash

Everyone keep saying something about the pulley, well Im going to remove it and do some more Dyno pulls without it.