Hey everyone,

Im getting confused about all this "computer management" stuff, and was hoping someone out there would oblige my uncertaincies.

Ok, Dynoflash firstly, this reflashes your ecu to remap your a/f and give you more power right? Is this plug and play, or does it need a laptop hooked up to it. Also, do you need to reflash everytime you add another mod?

Xede, From what I understand, this ups your boost pressure and remaps? I think this one needs a laptop also? What about reflashing for every mod...

I dont want to buy one of these and then have to pay to reflash again after every mod, or is that what the laptop is for? I also dont want to have to haul my 3K laptop around in my car where its gonna fly around like a peanut in a coffee pot. What i really want is the advertised 20-30WHP gain and not have to worry about reflashes and all that. I hope u guys can help, as i want to make and informed desicion.

On a side note, anyone know of a shop in Daytona Beach FL that does the tuning? I heard about it somewhere but lost the info.

With thanks in advance,

RAJ

 

One more thing i forgot, Are they all mail in?

 

PM sent.
This needs moved if you want unbiased results from ALL companies.

 

Agreed.
I decided to do Dynoflash due to the simplicity and price. I believe each management system has its own niche.

 

OK, no mail order reflash or piggy back maps are guaranteed to work optimally in your particular car. Not only that, but if your car has some other issue such as a knock prone engine (for whatever reason), even a custom reflash or piggyback map is not going to work miracles. Same thing goes for the stand-alone engine management systems. AEM, Autronics or even Motec or Haltech are going to be dependent on the undelying conditions of your individual car. I've tried all the above in my EVO and other cars and so far I find that all of them have issues and problems to work out. Some of these problems have solutions and some remain forever a pain in the a$$.
Having said all that, there are folks who've had great results with every one of the above options (or swear they do anyway ). I think (just my opinion, please don't attack me) that the biggest gains obtained from the mail order whatevers is a placebo effect. Undoubtedly, some if not all the mail order things do have some real effects, but will not necessarily result in measurable power gains.

My $.02

 

Thats a very interesting theory - the placebo theory!

However - the fact is that the variables are consistant on the stock ecu settings and they consistantly CHANGE dramatically on the Dyno Flashed mail ecus

In fact the a/f ratio and ign timing can be easily tested and verified with total ease given the proper equipment

In the case of the stock evo which goes down to a a/f in the 9's on full boost after 5500 - and which falls off the power band like crazy, it seems very un-placebo like when we raise the a/f ratio to a flat low 11 and riase the boost slightly - creating a dramatically improved power band in the process

BTW - my through the mail base flashed Evo in Chicago is the fastest ever yet with a Dyno Flash with a blazing 11.7 in the 1/4 mile - just half a second off Buschur's time with the stock turbo

AND - my through the mail tuned Dyno Flash sponsored Evo is in 1st place in its class at the OTC in cali at this very moment after two days of track events - just one spot ahead of the custom tuned Buchur Flash car that I tuned in LA which is in the #2 spot

Also - many customers have visted dynos in their area and verified significant gains

I know the other reflashes - eg. Works and Vishnu also make significant gains in power and perfeormace also and work as advertized

I think your theory is erroneous - just MY 2 cents

Here is a nice placebo dyno sheet for ya - not bad for a bone stock car with just a reflash

 

Dyno flash is a $199.99 plug in and forget it mod

If you need upgrades its $100 each time

Guys who get the full custom tune $550 for road trips or $500 on our home dyno with your ddyno time get free base upgrades fior life and $350 for a full custom upgrade

I am planning a trip to South Florida in early June

 

Obviously you have never tried any of these. I am not a DynoFlash customer, but I do have a reflash and I got a BEFORE and AFTER dyno plot all done the same morning and you can see the gains.
If you don't know, please do not guess.

I'm not going to endorse any particular product, but I do know from first hand knowledge that several (if not all) work dramatic effects.
If you want to know more specifics - do a search. This topic has been beat to death in both performance and costs categorizations.

 

There are two basic systems that I know of used to change timing, fuel, boost maps, rev limiter, etc... which when combined, make the engine perform more efficiently.

One way to do this is to reflash ROM chips mounted on the ECU. That is Dyno Flash and Xede Flash and a bunch of other guys. They buy equipment like the Techtom unit from a company called Technosquare in Torrance California(http://www.technosquareinc.com/techtom.htm) and then use it to reflash the chips with their own recipes for success. Buy one and you can set up shop in Florida doing ECU reflashes.

You can mail in your ECU (and your car will be down a week or so) and get 95% of the desired performance or you can dyno your car on site at a tuner shop for a few horsepower more (which I reccomend in case something goes FUBaR and needs a quick tweak) and have your car the same day.

The other way is an interceptor computer which fools the ECU and is located externally. There are a few, like the ones mentioned in an above post, and Xede, which can run with an Xede Flash (changes boost limits, rev limits and top speed I think).

You can plug your laptop into some of the interceptors to change maps, arriving at the same result you'd get with a reflash.

 

Oh boy, I knew this would happen.....Actually, I did not say that all you get from all those mail order mods is a placebo effect. What I posted was:
I also qualified my posting with the caveat that the car must be in good working order to get much in the way of real power gains. As you know yourself, when you did the custom Dynoflash to my car, it could not be tuned optimally due to the knock prone engine..... Actually, you had to de-tune my car from the factory settings just to stay out of the knock threshold.... I'd say that in my case I did not gain any more power. The raising of the RPM limit and the fuel enrichment allowed me to run a bit more boost and that would result in more power.
If my car had gotten just a mail order reflash or XEDE map or whatever, it would not have seen much in the way of gains, and perhaps would have been contra-indicated.

 

Hey, back off. You are making some seriously wrong assumptions. I have tried several of these options. I'm not going to name brands 'cause I'm not interested in any BS or flame war. I know exactly what my experience has been and I can make educated guesses about other ppls experience, specially since I've met them, talked with them and read their posts. Some of the other people I know about of are also not guesses but actual experiences.

I'm not bashing or attacking anybody, just sharing my experience and knowledge about the various things that I've tried and other have tried as well. Your mileage might vary, etc. So take my post as just a bit of side information if you want, but please don't attack me or question my veracity or my knowledge. I tell the truth and have first hand experience with these and many other car mods. You do what you want but the facts are as I said them.

If anybody is interested in the specifics of my experiences with reflashes, piggy-backs and standalone EMS, please email me or PM me privately. As I said, I'm not intersted in any BS or cyber fights. I was just answering the original question with what I know

 

Thats is very true in your particular case.

Thats is why I always have suggested that in person custom tune is the perferred and optimal solution that I highly recomend - if only for the diagnostic and verification asepcts

However - most people can not afford or justfiy the extra expense - especially where the base map performs so well in 95% of all cases

Also - for many people living in remote areas - a full custom tune is not practical or even possible

There are some cars that will not respond as well with a through the mail reflash

AND - it is super important to use the best fuel avaialble to avoid detonation with any tune. In your particular case the fuel used was very poor. As a matter of percentage - we have custome tuned 160 evos as of thsi date and about 8 of them had serious fuel or detonation issues which caused us to use lower ign timing settings. In several of those cases it was discovered that mechanical issues played a part - eg light crank pulley or bad cam install etc.

The best part about full custom tune is being able to identify those cars which have a knock or nosie issue and tune around it to provide a suitable margin of safety and to tailor the ign timing under the factory knock threshold and avoid even a trace of roughness in the power band

In 99.99 % of cases my customers end the 2 1/2 hour tuning session done and ready to enjoy the road without any issues or problems and no need for loaner cars or other hassels

 

BTW - speaking of the guy with the base through the mail flash that went 11.7

I don';t think the Redline sponsored Evo in NC that ran a 12.2 with the through the mail base flash is having much of a placebo thing going on either

If you look through the drag racing section there are many dyno Flash through the mail customers with great results

 

Well, back TO THE TOPIC...

Any ECU reflash is mod specific in that if you change your setup even in a "minor" way, you risk AFR's that are too lean, timing that is too advanced, etc.

If you're the type to set it and forget it, go for an ECU reflash and Al has done enough of these to become really good at it. It does get expensive if you change your setup more than twice, then it makes sense to move to level two.

If you're like me and you change your setup on a weekly basis, you might want to look at products such as the XEDE, UTEC, AEM EMS (caveat emptor on that last one), etc. I like the XEDE because...well, I have it. Hooking up a laptop is only necessary when you're changing parameters, not all the time. I would assume that you would have to be pretty comfortable with a laptop tuning program if you were to go with a standalone like the EMS.

There are plenty of XEDE maps out there right now and I have a couple you can try if you go for a Buschur Stage IVish setup.

Regards,
Joe

 

One thing to consider with all three alternatives you mention is that they alter the factory knock protection function or totaly remove it

One of the best features of the reflash route is ZERO compatability issues

ZERO problems or head aches - no wrirng changes or modifications needed

AND TOTAL 100% factory knock protection keeping everything 100 % safe and reliable

To me - the factory knock protection function is one of the best ways to guard against engine damage from bad fuel and sudden changes which may not be forseen with a do it yourself tune

I beleive in what designed as far as noise level paramaters and I feel it is not wise to play around with that if your car is anything other than a track car on race gas

I have mede 557 whp with the stock bottom end, head and factory knock sesnor so the power can be made with that function in tact

While the methods you mention can achieve great results - for most end users they still have to factor in dyno time and a fee for who ever is going to tune it

Very few of my clients have the tools and experience needed to do their own tuning

PS - if you conisder a piggy back device or UTEC - then you should factor in the cost of a base reflash as in either case the stock base maps change and you need a flash to set a constant base map and to eliminate fuel cut if applicable - e.g. Exedeflash - or my Utech flash for example