E85 or E100 ???
Sep 11, 2008, 10:10 PM
#1
E85 or E100 ???
I just found out that the independent station where I buy E85 is planning to also carry E100 in 2-3 months. There is a lot of good info on this Alt Fuel sub-forum on E85, but almost nothing on E100.
What are the pros and cons of switching from E85 to E100? Why might I want to switch to E100? Why might I be best served by staying with E85?
BTW, E85 is rated at 105 octane and E100 is rated at 113 octane.
The unknown right now is price. Logic would tell me that E100 should be less per gal than E85, correct? Since it contains no expensive petroleum products. However, knowing "marketing" as I do, they may attempt to charge more for the higher octane rating.
I was actually surprised when the manager (or owner) just happened to mention his plan for carrying E100. I was simply asking him if his "E" pump is E85 all year round or if the ethanol switches to E70 in the winter. He says it is E85 all year.
My related question is: what could possibly be the intended market for E100? I don't think flex fuel vehicles can use E100, correct? Except for a very few auto performance enthusiasts, who might actually use E100?
What are the pros and cons of switching from E85 to E100? Why might I want to switch to E100? Why might I be best served by staying with E85?
BTW, E85 is rated at 105 octane and E100 is rated at 113 octane.
The unknown right now is price. Logic would tell me that E100 should be less per gal than E85, correct? Since it contains no expensive petroleum products. However, knowing "marketing" as I do, they may attempt to charge more for the higher octane rating.
I was actually surprised when the manager (or owner) just happened to mention his plan for carrying E100. I was simply asking him if his "E" pump is E85 all year round or if the ethanol switches to E70 in the winter. He says it is E85 all year.
My related question is: what could possibly be the intended market for E100? I don't think flex fuel vehicles can use E100, correct? Except for a very few auto performance enthusiasts, who might actually use E100?
Last edited by Jim in Tucson; Sep 12, 2008 at 05:52 AM.
Sep 12, 2008, 11:01 AM
#3
No one specifically uses E100 or E98. We do in our racecars and Lucas' and my personal cars. These are my thoughts on it:
Leans it out another 0.5 AFR over your E85 tune
I have heard its closer to 120 octane (E85 is supposed to be 105 motor octane not R+M/2) but regardless its really hard to make it knock.
E85 starts easier, though now that we can turn off the ignition retard during warmup its about a wash. My car starts first crank with 1600s and E98.
Pricewise it seems the E98 is actually more right now because it doesnt fall under the federal tax umbrella for fuel like E85 as far as we have seen. E85 right now has no state (in WA anyway) or federal tax until Dec 31 2009.
Leans it out another 0.5 AFR over your E85 tune
I have heard its closer to 120 octane (E85 is supposed to be 105 motor octane not R+M/2) but regardless its really hard to make it knock.
E85 starts easier, though now that we can turn off the ignition retard during warmup its about a wash. My car starts first crank with 1600s and E98.
Pricewise it seems the E98 is actually more right now because it doesnt fall under the federal tax umbrella for fuel like E85 as far as we have seen. E85 right now has no state (in WA anyway) or federal tax until Dec 31 2009.
Sep 12, 2008, 05:02 PM
#5
Sorry that was actually me posting on Lucas' account.
I am still using the Stock ECU and MAFT Pro to tune my car on 1600s and E98.
Lucas switched for the drivability and control features of the AEM. Power is about what it was but there is more he can do to control it.
There is a periphery bit that you can change in the stock ECU to disable the ignition retard that seems to affect start up as well as cold driving. You have to remember to not boost on it since it runs normal timing even when cold but the trade off for cold start is definitely worth it.
aaron
I am still using the Stock ECU and MAFT Pro to tune my car on 1600s and E98.
Lucas switched for the drivability and control features of the AEM. Power is about what it was but there is more he can do to control it.
There is a periphery bit that you can change in the stock ECU to disable the ignition retard that seems to affect start up as well as cold driving. You have to remember to not boost on it since it runs normal timing even when cold but the trade off for cold start is definitely worth it.
aaron
Trending Topics
Sep 13, 2008, 02:39 AM
#8
Evolving Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ca
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry that was actually me posting on Lucas' account.
I am still using the Stock ECU and MAFT Pro to tune my car on 1600s and E98.
Lucas switched for the drivability and control features of the AEM. Power is about what it was but there is more he can do to control it.
There is a periphery bit that you can change in the stock ECU to disable the ignition retard that seems to affect start up as well as cold driving. You have to remember to not boost on it since it runs normal timing even when cold but the trade off for cold start is definitely worth it.
aaron
I am still using the Stock ECU and MAFT Pro to tune my car on 1600s and E98.
Lucas switched for the drivability and control features of the AEM. Power is about what it was but there is more he can do to control it.
There is a periphery bit that you can change in the stock ECU to disable the ignition retard that seems to affect start up as well as cold driving. You have to remember to not boost on it since it runs normal timing even when cold but the trade off for cold start is definitely worth it.
aaron
Sep 13, 2008, 03:36 PM
#11
The 105 octane rating of E85 is fairly widely accepted. Whether that is based on some mathematical and chemical formula, or is simply some kind of extrapolated equivalency, I'm not 100% sure. Anyone known for certain?
Here is my reference to the rating for E100 being approx. 113 octane:
http://www.drivingethanol.org/ethano...factsheet.aspx
Here is my reference to the rating for E100 being approx. 113 octane:
http://www.drivingethanol.org/ethano...factsheet.aspx
Sep 16, 2008, 05:27 PM
#12
JB, what exactly do you mean?
My car does not idle on gasoline on the old style ford 160#/FIC 1600s that are in there now. It will idle on E50 at the least, prefers E98, but I can make anything work in a pinch.
Sep 26, 2008, 08:19 PM
#13
Evolving Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bandimere actually sells E-98(2% denaturalized alchol so people don't drink it, because 100% would be moonshine lol) for $3.00 a gallon instead of $3.25 for E-85 and the E-98 actually has a top lube to make up for the lack of gasoline...
Sep 30, 2008, 08:53 PM
#14
I bought a 55 gallon drum of VP Racing denatured Ethanol. I think it was around $400 . . . so $8-9 per gallon.
I could not get any of my fuel distributors around here to sell me straight ethanol in anything smaller than an tanker truck . . .
If you are planning racing your EVO, and are planning on running straight ethanol I would consult an engine builder who is experienced in building alcohol motors. . . The alcohol cools the piston so much that an alcohol motor should be built a bit differently than a gas motor for optimal performance and to keep blow-by in check. Different tolerances, perhaps different alloy for the pistons. (this is what I was told by an engine builder, not my first hand experience. . . )
If you plan on seeing sub-45* mornings don't even think about getting your E-100 to fire up . . . I've had to pour warm water over the intake manifold on particularly cold mornings to get the car to start . . .
EVOlutionary
I could not get any of my fuel distributors around here to sell me straight ethanol in anything smaller than an tanker truck . . .
If you are planning racing your EVO, and are planning on running straight ethanol I would consult an engine builder who is experienced in building alcohol motors. . . The alcohol cools the piston so much that an alcohol motor should be built a bit differently than a gas motor for optimal performance and to keep blow-by in check. Different tolerances, perhaps different alloy for the pistons. (this is what I was told by an engine builder, not my first hand experience. . . )
If you plan on seeing sub-45* mornings don't even think about getting your E-100 to fire up . . . I've had to pour warm water over the intake manifold on particularly cold mornings to get the car to start . . .
EVOlutionary
