Notices
ECU Flash

AFR consistency per gear?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jun 9, 2006 | 04:23 AM
  #16  
ScrappyJack's Avatar
Thread Starter
Newbie
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
Post

Originally Posted by ScrappyJack
No changes from the last logs. Pulls started around 2000 - 2500 RPM. Left out data below 4000 RPM because of differing load-per-RPM-point.

2nd gear *only*
4033 233 11.75
4534 235 11.62
4961 237 11.79
5607 230 11.92
6043 232 11.88
6513 221 12.27
7068 217 11.55

3rd gear *only*
3987 243 11.40
4549 231 11.64
5036 238 11.64
5518 237 11.42
6031 236 11.69
6476 226 11.56
7009 227 11.19

It seems to me that the difference in AFR between gears is more dramatic during a multiple-gear pass vs two individual single-gear passes.
Forgot to add:

Two gear pull under same conditions:
2nd gear
5555 232 11.86
5945 232 11.75
6573 225 11.96
6938 218 11.73
+
3rd gear
5559 234 10.84
6004 236 10.76
6547 227 11.00
6833 225 10.86
Reply
Old Jun 9, 2006 | 07:11 AM
  #17  
MalibuJack's Avatar
EvoM Guru
20 Year Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,572
Likes: 14
From: Royse City, TX
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
The evo does run richer with greater vehicle speed and the coolant temp enrichment is very excessive.

I am hoping that the creators of the ecu flash will add additional tuning paramaters in comming months which can help us make better tuning maps - I have been unable to find the enrichment maps myself to date although I am still hunting
I haven't spoken to Jason in awhile, but I did get the impression there are quite a few more tables to be published, I asked specifically about a closed loop AFR target table.. I do think the open loop load tables are where someone should look closer since they appear to be expected target load tables of some sort..
Reply
Old Jun 14, 2006 | 10:39 PM
  #18  
elhalisf's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (171)
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,216
Likes: 0
From: Chandler, AZ
Originally Posted by MalibuJack
I think there are more factors contributing to load than throttle position, RPM, and boost level, look at the load cells adjacent to the cells you know to apply, its possible you need to adjust those too.

In general, the higher the load, the richer the ECU (The way its mapped) wants to run.. But there are a few additional tables representing load values (Open Loop Load #1 and Open Loop Load #2) that you might also want to look at besides the fuel map itself.
are you able to explain the Open Loop Load #1 and Open Loop Load #2 table and what they do?
Reply
Old Jun 15, 2006 | 07:41 AM
  #19  
TTP Engineering's Avatar
Account Disabled
iTrader: (465)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,824
Likes: 2
From: Central FL
Tis why we specifically tune for 1-4 gear passes while tuning and also lean on 4th gear data for final AFR as the last gear in the 1/4 for most Evos. The first 3 will run leaner. Interesting question on the speed sensor Martin.
Reply
Old Jun 15, 2006 | 09:49 AM
  #20  
MalibuJack's Avatar
EvoM Guru
20 Year Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,572
Likes: 14
From: Royse City, TX
Originally Posted by elhalisf
are you able to explain the Open Loop Load #1 and Open Loop Load #2 table and what they do?
Nah not yet, I haven't gotten to them yet..
Reply
Old Jun 15, 2006 | 12:44 PM
  #21  
elhalisf's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (171)
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,216
Likes: 0
From: Chandler, AZ
Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
Tis why we specifically tune for 1-4 gear passes while tuning and also lean on 4th gear data for final AFR as the last gear in the 1/4 for most Evos. The first 3 will run leaner. Interesting question on the speed sensor Martin.
so should i shoot for 11.5 AFR in 4th gear or 3rd gear? because when i did tunned for 11.5 in 4th, i was hitting a max of 12.0 in 3rd gear.
Reply
Old Jun 15, 2006 | 12:48 PM
  #22  
TTP Engineering's Avatar
Account Disabled
iTrader: (465)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,824
Likes: 2
From: Central FL
Your offsets sound correct. I can tell you what "I" do on my own car. What you do is on you Faisal.

I tune for target AFR in the last gear I experience in the 1320'.
Reply
Old Jun 15, 2006 | 01:03 PM
  #23  
anjapower's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (18)
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,816
Likes: 1
From: Dirty Jersey
Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
Your offsets sound correct. I can tell you what "I" do on my own car. What you do is on you Faisal.

I tune for target AFR in the last gear I experience in the 1320'.
what would you recommend as AFR range/values to tune for - in a daily driven Evo that runs pump gas w/o alky.
Reply
Old Jun 15, 2006 | 01:36 PM
  #24  
hondafan's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (25)
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,854
Likes: 4
From: york, PA
Originally Posted by anjapower
what would you recommend as AFR range/values to tune for - in a daily driven Evo that runs pump gas w/o alky.
+1. what would i want to shoot for doing 3rd gear pulls? i don't have anywhere convenient to road tune with 4th gear pulls.
Reply
Old Jun 15, 2006 | 01:46 PM
  #25  
TTP Engineering's Avatar
Account Disabled
iTrader: (465)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,824
Likes: 2
From: Central FL
Originally Posted by anjapower
what would you recommend as AFR range/values to tune for - in a daily driven Evo that runs pump gas w/o alky.
Depends on weather, temps, octane. 11.5 AFR on 93 oct in FL weather works well for me. YMMV.
Reply
Old Jun 15, 2006 | 01:47 PM
  #26  
TTP Engineering's Avatar
Account Disabled
iTrader: (465)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,824
Likes: 2
From: Central FL
Originally Posted by hondafan
+1. what would i want to shoot for doing 3rd gear pulls? i don't have anywhere convenient to road tune with 4th gear pulls.
Originally Posted by elhalisf
so should i shoot for 11.5 AFR in 4th gear or 3rd gear? because when i did tunned for 11.5 in 4th, i was hitting a max of 12.0 in 3rd gear.
Reply
Old Jun 23, 2006 | 07:32 AM
  #27  
ScrappyJack's Avatar
Thread Starter
Newbie
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
Question

Originally Posted by DynoFlash
The evo does run richer with greater vehicle speed and the coolant temp enrichment is very excessive.
Bringing this back up. I am not sure that VSS has that much to do with it. Look at the data at 5500 and 6000 RPM:

Originally Posted by ScrappyJack
No changes from the last logs. Pulls started around 2000 - 2500 RPM. Left out data below 4000 RPM because of differing load-per-RPM-point.
Data is in format RPM Boost (KPA) AFR

2nd gear *only*
5607 230 11.92
6043 232 11.88

3rd gear *only*
5518 237 11.42
6031 236 11.69

Two gear pull under same conditions:
2nd gear
5555 232 11.86
5945 232 11.75
+
3rd gear
5559 234 10.84
6004 236 10.76
We are talking VERY comparable boost levels (+/- 7 KPA max) and very comparable RPM points. The major difference is single-gear vs multiple-gear. I would think, if it was VSS related that there would not be such a dramatic difference in the 3rd gear-only pull vs the same points in the 2nd + 3rd pull.

So I am clear, everyone else is tuned this way? Meaning, on a drag-style pass with your 3rd gear dialed in, you can be running as much as 1 AFR point leaner in 2nd and 1 AFR point richer in 4th?
Reply
Old Jun 23, 2006 | 08:22 AM
  #28  
TTP Engineering's Avatar
Account Disabled
iTrader: (465)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,824
Likes: 2
From: Central FL
I would say 0.5-0.8 AFR is about right.
Reply
Old Jun 23, 2006 | 09:30 AM
  #29  
nj1266's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,254
Likes: 13
From: USA
Originally Posted by ScrappyJack
So I am clear, everyone else is tuned this way? Meaning, on a drag-style pass with your 3rd gear dialed in, you can be running as much as 1 AFR point leaner in 2nd and 1 AFR point richer in 4th?
It depends on the intended use of your car. Most of those who drag race tend to tune leaner than those who hotlap their Evos. Running 11.5-12.0:1 for a short blast down the 1/4 mile might not damage your car as bad as running the same AFRs for a 20 min hotlap session. This is assuming 93 oct gas.

My car was tuned in 3rd gear in the low 11:1 and tpaering 10.9-10.8:1 by redline. It gets richer in 4th gear, but I do not mind that since I intend to hotlap the car in the future. Here in SoCal our tracks ar in the high desert and it can get hot. Tuning rich in 4th gear helps reduce detonation.
Reply
Old Jun 23, 2006 | 09:41 AM
  #30  
TTP Engineering's Avatar
Account Disabled
iTrader: (465)
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,824
Likes: 2
From: Central FL
Originally Posted by nj1266
It depends on the intended use of your car. Most of those who drag race tend to tune leaner than those who hotlap their Evos. Running 11.5-12.0:1 for a short blast down the 1/4 mile might not damage your car as bad as running the same AFRs for a 20 min hotlap session. This is assuming 93 oct gas.

My car was tuned in 3rd gear in the low 11:1 and tpaering 10.9-10.8:1 by redline. It gets richer in 4th gear, but I do not mind that since I intend to hotlap the car in the future. Here in SoCal our tracks ar in the high desert and it can get hot. Tuning rich in 4th gear helps reduce detonation.
I don't agree with your terminology "damage your car". If you car is not preigniting or detonating, there is little cause for concern. Much depends on your local weather and humidity as to what works best. 6sp MR's also have short gears and the offset is a bit less.
Reply



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:53 AM.