Scroll down a bit to see the reults of map scaling......

Hello Folks,

So a quick bit of history. My car has run lean for some time now, with the utec I was able to get everything fat enough to run good and never gopt over 80% dutty cycle.
I got an E-Flash from Al, that turned out to be way to lean for my car (included a pre flash log file with boost and afr) then a revised map that was still a little too lean and my car never liked the amount of advance the E-Flash was trying to run in the 3k-4k range. Al stated I had a fueling problem, so I have since installed a walbro and I am getting the fuel pressure checked out this week since it still seems leaner than it should be.

At any rate. Current mods are:
3" turbo back, Walbro, Stock airbox and stock filter, denso plugs (iridium), Utec in passthrough mode for logging. I am running a little more boost than stock (utec bleed valve is opened about two turns).

Car seems to start pulling timing during spoolup at around 3,000 rpms. I had been adding more fuel and pulling timing in that region but it does not seem to be helping. Here are the logs and the maps:

3rd gear pulls:
RPM, MAP, MAF,TPS,Site,Count, Ign#1, Inj#1, Ign, Fuel,Boost, MAF, AFR
, psig, Hz, % , , , deg , duty , deg, % ,(CL) , Hz,

1959, -1.2, 254, 49, 10, 00, +16.1, 10.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 245, 15.44
2060, +0.5, 249,100, 10, 00, +14.3, 10.6,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 277, 14.96
2111, +1.2, 297,100, 10, 00, +13.2, 11.9,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 306, 14.00
2207, +1.9, 267,100, 10, 00, +12.3, 12.3,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 280, 13.17
2289, +2.4, 303,100, 10, 00, +12.3, 13.8,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 308, 12.99
2331, +3.1, 325,100, 10, 00, +11.2, 13.9,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 360, 12.86
2426, +3.6, 326,100, 10, 00, +10.3, 15.7,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 368, 12.67
2504, +4.3, 406,100, 10, 00, +9.2, 17.2,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 356, 12.42
2596, +4.8, 451,100, 10, 00, +7.6, 17.3,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 377, 12.21
2683, +5.5, 490,100, 10, 00, +7.5, 19.1,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 417, 12.11
2805, +6.4, 464,100, 10, 00, +6.5, 20.3,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 517, 12.17
2898, +7.4, 537,100, 10, 00, +5.5, 22.8,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 595, 12.46
2978, +8.4, 663,100, 10, 00, +5.4, 27.6,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 521, 12.46
3135, +9.8, 644,100, 10, 00, +3.8, 31.1,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 751, 12.00
3245,+11.2, 733,100, 10, 00, +3.8, 38.1,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 681, 11.81
3363,+13.1, 874,100, 20, 00, +2.8, 43.3,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 857, 11.81
3512,+15.3,1123,100, 30, 00, +2.7, 49.3,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 809, 11.73
3627,+17.7,1072,100, 30, 00, +3.0, 49.9,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1084, 11.53
3779,+19.6, 672,100, 40, 00, +3.9, 52.9,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1240, 11.34
3926,+21.0,1162,100, 40, 00, +4.0, 55.1,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1014, 11.28
4095,+21.5,1075,100, 40, 00, +4.2, 57.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 815, 11.33


2574, +3.1, 403, 96, 10, 00, +9.3, 17.1,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 372, 14.15
2675, +3.8, 396,100, 10, 00, +9.3, 18.7,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 438, 13.06
2766, +4.8, 515,100, 10, 00, +8.2, 20.4,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 408, 12.25
2878, +6.0, 561,100, 10, 00, +6.5, 20.1,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 446, 12.25
2981, +7.2, 507,100, 10, 00, +5.4, 27.1,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 513, 12.45
3095, +8.4, 729,100, 10, 00, +4.4, 30.5,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 712, 12.23
3217, +9.8, 931,100, 10, 00, +4.4, 37.3,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. , 912, 11.77
3343,+11.7, 988,100, 10, 00, +4.3, 42.4,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1026, 11.65
3508,+14.1, 988,100, 20, 00, +3.9, 48.7,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1240, 11.53
3650,+16.5, 834,100, 30, 00, +3.9, 49.2,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1168, 11.39
3805,+18.6, 675,100, 30, 00, +4.2, 51.6,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1126, 11.28
3954,+20.1, 929,100, 40, 00, +4.6, 53.6,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1366, 11.30
4130,+20.8,1024,100, 40, 00, +4.2, 58.0,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1262, 11.28
4278,+21.3,1170,100, 40, 00, +5.8, 56.4,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1162, 11.18
4409,+21.5,1222,100, 50, 00, +6.9, 57.3,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1126, 11.08
4553,+21.3,1165,100, 50, 00, +7.0, 60.7,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1024, 11.11
4708,+21.5,1187,100, 50, 00, +7.0, 63.6,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1308, 11.18
4859,+21.3,1231,100, 60, 00, +8.2, 65.4,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1326, 11.18
5035,+21.0,1288,100, 60, 00, +8.2, 68.1,ECU. , +0.0,ECU. ,1440, 11.17


Timing Map:



Fuel Map:


At this point, I am closing the bleed valve to go back to 20psi until I can figure out what is going on with the timing.

 

Timing Map:



Fuel Map:


At this point, I am closing the bleed valve to go back to 20psi until I can figure out what is going on with the timing



are you sure your adjusting the correct load cells? Try making the low & high octain/timing maps the same and see if it still happens.

 

If the knock cant be suppressed with fuel and timing then maybe something else might be causing it. Boost, exhaust? Stupid quest: that is a high oct map, right?

 

Those are the high octane fuel and ignition maps, and they are both the same as the low octane/high konck maps, so in other words they are flattened.

How rich is rich enough during spoolup?? I have already added a fair amount of fuel and removed about 4 degrees of timing the the regions that seem to be a problem.

 

maybe your getting rich knock? what is your A/F as read by your WB in that area???

 

I could possibly help you a little not fimilar with utec but the same consept applys for all tuning what do the 0-260 across the top rep? Are you posssibly on the far right? Becuase even at low rpm and low boost seems like you timing is lower than the map

can't read raw knock with utec?

 

No, the utec has it's own set of knock filters and does not report knock unless you are running it's timing maps, at the moment, the utec is in pass through mode and only being used for logging.

 

Pulled from the 3rd gear logs at the top and cleaned up a little:
RPM PSI MAF TPS IGN Duty AFR
2898, +7.4, 537, 100, +5.5, 22.8, 12.46
2978, +8.4, 663, 100, +5.4, 27.6, 12.46
3135, +9.8, 644, 100, +3.8, 31.1, 12.00
3245,+11.2, 733, 100, +3.8, 38.1, 11.81

2878, +6.0, 561, 100, +6.5, 20.1, 12.25
2981, +7.2, 507, 100, +5.4, 27.1, 12.45
3095, +8.4, 729, 100, +4.4, 30.5, 12.23
3217, +9.8, 931, 100, +4.4, 37.3, 11.77

AFR's are in the low to mid 12's at about 8-10 psi boost just before 3k and dropping to high 11's just after 3k.


After reading about the other guy falling outside of the map load ranges, I thought that was a possibility at first, but I don't think the maf reading is high enough for that.....

Realy need that logger so I can look at the knock count.......

 

it actually doesn't look like your pulling ~that much timing... could it be your logging device is giving you false readings?

 

I don't see any problems. It is just that your load value goes over 260%. If there is a knock you will be seeing like timing value 1.1 or lower and stays until abut 5000 rpm and very slowly rise. Load value doesn't rely on MAF readings only. Stock ECU has some strange algorithm for the calculating the load value that we haven't figured out completely yet.

 

The UTEC Will report knock in passthrough mode, only its filters are a little different than stock and may not always report it. In passthroug mode however it does nothing with the reported knock but log it.

Therefore your not really seeing knock, however the MOD Maf value is 1200hz or so, that is being sent to the ECU at that RPM range and will trigger the out of range timing retard algorithm.. Thats probably what your seeing..

See if you rescale the load columns (I'm curious about this makes sense) to 310-320.. and raise the boost cut setting to over 300.. Don't forget to use mild timing (according to other posts) until you know for sure where you end up in the map.

 

I guess one sure way to find out if it is falling outside the 260 column is to drop the timing in the "problem" area down to like 1degree advance and log a pull.

I have some logs from the same time of 5th gear pulls around 3k-4k So I will dig those up the evening and try to compair them as well,

The utec does log in sequence, so each column is sampled after the preceeding so they are not instant values across the row, each value is offset by a few millseconds from the previous.

 

i agree thats why i was asking what 0-260 represents. looks your running completly on the right side of the timing map. It looks smooth when timing is pulled it will jump down then come back normally

 

Hey Jack,

We talked about the mod maf value on the utec forum a couple weeks ago. I thought the conclusion was the utec was not modifying the maf value but rather the mod maf column was reporting a few milliseconds after the maf column. This was one my original concerns when I started logging for the reflash. Utec is in passthrough mode.

If someone can advise on how to rescale the load columns I would be glad to give it a try.........

 

Well, that is the calculated load value. No one seems positive how it is calculated, and I'm certainly no experienced enough to elaborate on the previous conversations, I have been finding load points by looking at the logs and going off the timing map.