Injector scaling and latecy for different injectors.
Yea actually think thats right. I know the more you increase scaling you actually take fuel out.
Want to do a BR short block and bushwacker tranny in my car this winter????
Let me know. We'll I could just have em shipped there. Don't know what kind of work load your looking at.
Want to do a BR short block and bushwacker tranny in my car this winter????
Let me know. We'll I could just have em shipped there. Don't know what kind of work load your looking at.
Last edited by gsrboi80; Nov 14, 2008 at 03:54 PM.
Yea actually think thats right. I know the more you increase scaling you actually take fuel out.
Want to do a BR short block and bushwacker tranny in my car this winter????
Let me know. We'll I could just have em shipped there. Don't know what kind of work load your looking at.
Want to do a BR short block and bushwacker tranny in my car this winter????
Let me know. We'll I could just have em shipped there. Don't know what kind of work load your looking at.
I would be happy to do the work. As you know I always have a line out the garage (I have 4 Evos, 2 Subarus and a Mirage awaiting a EVO IX heart transplant). Give me a call and we can set something up.
I'm still getting no where with these injectors and I've already scaled a hand full in the past, so this is getting really frustrating.
I've tried increasing my scaling all the way to 860. I did finally show really lean figures but, only once oddly. Once I saw the figures I readjusted the scaling to 790 but, that put AFRs down onto high 8s low 9s. I tried going back to 812 to see if I could get leaner numbers but, it didn't change the AFR figures at all.
I settled back down to 790 and tried using the AEM figures for the injectors (FIC 850) of:
7.03 = 2.040
9.38 = .960
11.72 = .600
14.06 = .336
16.41 = .192
18.68 = .096
These latencies still showed no real affect on the AFR figures. My trims are still not registering (staying at .1008). I tried enabling closed loop at idle via the coolant temp switchover point and adjusting the fuel via the fuel map but, still to no avail.
At this point I'm really at a loss as to why nothing seems to be affecting the AFRs. I would try to scale the MAF but, with the trims maxing out it makes scaling the MAF impossible.
I'm really leaning towards a bum ECU. The ECU in the car is a '05 96940011 ROM but, the chassis is an '03. The current owner bought the car with a really bad rod knock. I ended up rebuilding the motor from top to bottom and I really have no history of the car whatsoever. My next step is to find a '03 ECU to put in this thing and see what happens. Currently I'm using Tephra's v5.10 96530006 ROM as the 96940011 ROM was all screwed up. All the maps were showing some really strange date to include letter in maps.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated as I'm really at the end of my rope with this thing.
I've tried increasing my scaling all the way to 860. I did finally show really lean figures but, only once oddly. Once I saw the figures I readjusted the scaling to 790 but, that put AFRs down onto high 8s low 9s. I tried going back to 812 to see if I could get leaner numbers but, it didn't change the AFR figures at all.
I settled back down to 790 and tried using the AEM figures for the injectors (FIC 850) of:
7.03 = 2.040
9.38 = .960
11.72 = .600
14.06 = .336
16.41 = .192
18.68 = .096
These latencies still showed no real affect on the AFR figures. My trims are still not registering (staying at .1008). I tried enabling closed loop at idle via the coolant temp switchover point and adjusting the fuel via the fuel map but, still to no avail.
At this point I'm really at a loss as to why nothing seems to be affecting the AFRs. I would try to scale the MAF but, with the trims maxing out it makes scaling the MAF impossible.
I'm really leaning towards a bum ECU. The ECU in the car is a '05 96940011 ROM but, the chassis is an '03. The current owner bought the car with a really bad rod knock. I ended up rebuilding the motor from top to bottom and I really have no history of the car whatsoever. My next step is to find a '03 ECU to put in this thing and see what happens. Currently I'm using Tephra's v5.10 96530006 ROM as the 96940011 ROM was all screwed up. All the maps were showing some really strange date to include letter in maps.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated as I'm really at the end of my rope with this thing.
I hate my 850s. It took forever to get them dialed in. Only really ones that give me issues. I finally am content with how they are now. When i get to my laptop i will send you mine and see if they work for you
I've used all the figures posted in here for FIC 850s but, none of them worked 
Everything I try, going from one extreme to another, doesn't do diddly squat, which is annoying an really concerning me. Either the LC-1 sensor is bad or the ECU is bad.
That being said, post your settings up as I would be curious to see what you ended up with.
Everything I try, going from one extreme to another, doesn't do diddly squat, which is annoying an really concerning me. Either the LC-1 sensor is bad or the ECU is bad. That being said, post your settings up as I would be curious to see what you ended up with.
FIC 1150
I've been running these for a couple weeks now. I think these are bored out versions of the popular 1050's from FIC. If they aren't, they sure act like it because I am running mrfred's latency values. On regular gas my trims are within + and - 5% whether it be a 75 degree day or 20 degree night. Cold and warm startups on the stock base IPW charts is very good. For good warm starting on gas you will need to do something similar to what I have down below. Note you will have to add in 30% or maybe more when running E85 as the car will start and then stall due to not enough fuel. These injectors flow 1190cc/min according to the sheet I got from FIC.
Global: 1125cc/min
I've been running these for a couple weeks now. I think these are bored out versions of the popular 1050's from FIC. If they aren't, they sure act like it because I am running mrfred's latency values. On regular gas my trims are within + and - 5% whether it be a 75 degree day or 20 degree night. Cold and warm startups on the stock base IPW charts is very good. For good warm starting on gas you will need to do something similar to what I have down below. Note you will have to add in 30% or maybe more when running E85 as the car will start and then stall due to not enough fuel. These injectors flow 1190cc/min according to the sheet I got from FIC.
Global: 1125cc/min
PHP Code:
Latency:
volts latency (ms)
4.69 4.512
7.03 3.408
9.38 1.896
11.72 1.320
14.06 0.936
16.41 0.672
18.68 0.480
PHP Code:
Startup IPW table:
DegC IPW(ms)
-32 104.6
-18 50.0
-8 21.3
7 10.0
20 6.5
34 2.0
50 1.5
77 1.4
82 1.4
Could someone post PTE 1200's on E85 please? Please keep in mind that I'm going back to Stock ECU from the AEM so I've been out of the game for a little while and don't have ANY of my old scalings etc.
I'm currently running a scaling of 680.
These are the current latencies:
3.624
1.992
1.344
0.984
0.744
0.576
0.456
Driving the car is okay for the most part but I kicked on the CEL. (I am also having mad idle dipping with an almost choke when coming to a dead-stop/clutch in). (Yes, I know MAF Scaling).
I'm going to go out on a limb and say its my trim codes. I don't have my cable available to do any changes to the ROM but if I can get someone's ball-park numbers, I'll be able to get access to a cable for the changes and some logging.
Thanks for your time!!
-E
I'm currently running a scaling of 680.
These are the current latencies:
3.624
1.992
1.344
0.984
0.744
0.576
0.456
Driving the car is okay for the most part but I kicked on the CEL. (I am also having mad idle dipping with an almost choke when coming to a dead-stop/clutch in). (Yes, I know MAF Scaling).
I'm going to go out on a limb and say its my trim codes. I don't have my cable available to do any changes to the ROM but if I can get someone's ball-park numbers, I'll be able to get access to a cable for the changes and some logging.
Thanks for your time!!
-E
I just noticed that Dan l was the first person to post Startup IPW values. I am still new to tuning injectors but is this something people normally adjust when going to larger injectors? I would figure Accell enrichment as well but i still dont understand how the Accell enrichment works with Bez's tables.
Your scaling looks too low for E85; my global scaling is around 770 w/ 1150's. What are your injectors scaled at for pump gas? Take that number and multiply by .7 to get you in the ballpark of where you should be.
Could someone post PTE 1200's on E85 please? Please keep in mind that I'm going back to Stock ECU from the AEM so I've been out of the game for a little while and don't have ANY of my old scalings etc.
I'm currently running a scaling of 680.
These are the current latencies:
3.624
1.992
1.344
0.984
0.744
0.576
0.456
Driving the car is okay for the most part but I kicked on the CEL. (I am also having mad idle dipping with an almost choke when coming to a dead-stop/clutch in). (Yes, I know MAF Scaling).
I'm going to go out on a limb and say its my trim codes. I don't have my cable available to do any changes to the ROM but if I can get someone's ball-park numbers, I'll be able to get access to a cable for the changes and some logging.
Thanks for your time!!
-E
I'm currently running a scaling of 680.
These are the current latencies:
3.624
1.992
1.344
0.984
0.744
0.576
0.456
Driving the car is okay for the most part but I kicked on the CEL. (I am also having mad idle dipping with an almost choke when coming to a dead-stop/clutch in). (Yes, I know MAF Scaling).
I'm going to go out on a limb and say its my trim codes. I don't have my cable available to do any changes to the ROM but if I can get someone's ball-park numbers, I'll be able to get access to a cable for the changes and some logging.
Thanks for your time!!
-E
Everyone keeps telling me to take my pump gas scaling. I've been saying for awhile now that I NEVER ran the 1200's with pump gas. I was previously on the AEM when I ran these injectors.
-E
-E
1. Choose a global setting (ECUFlash injector scaling number)
2. Log trims at idle and cruise
3. If trims are roughly the same, but positive, then you need to increase your
global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to lower your injector scaling
number.
4. If both trims are roughly the same, but negative, then you need to
descrease your global fueling, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to raise your
injector scaling number.
5. If idle trim is more positive than cruise trim, then you need to increase the
dead time, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to increase the latency value.
6. If the idle trim is less positive than the cruise trim, you need to decrease
the deadtime, or in terms of ECUFlash, you need to decrease the latency value.
I copied this and saved it in my tunning notes to refer back to so i dont get something backwards. Ive already been down the route of taking ppls numbers and just pluggin them in without good results, each injector, car etc will be diff, just like timing and fuel maps will be diff. fuel press, type of fuel, and individual injectors come into play when scaling injectors.
what i have found to work well as a starting point is to take the ame ems latency master number and add .2-.3 at 14 and 11 volt. then put in about 80% actual inj size in for the scaling number. then just simply follow the the steps above and you will be fine.
sorry if this was covered already but i didnt read through this whole thread
If you find the RC1000 scalings that will get you closer. The PTE do not flow like the FIC injectors from what I hear and have seen.
My 1200's are currently scaled at 636 global and trims are within 1 percent on e85. I was totally surprised coming from FIC 1000 ball and seat injector to disc type 1200's. the FIC 1050 had 740 global on e85
the disc type have WAY lower latency values and much lower global values to match. I believe they might not flow as much as the FIC or they simply flow more with lower latency values (FIC says disc type flow less according to their tests). (RC rates their 1200's at 1200 over 50 psi) and they flow less than 1100 at 43.5 psi according to their website.
I personally would not drive too much without the ability to log trims and AFR along with getting those injectors properly scaled.
PS For me the disc type injector meters fuel more accurately and idle and drivability has proven superior to ball/seat designed injector. It should also be noted that my particular injectors are designed for e85 or alcohol methanol based fuel
Good Luck
My 1200's are currently scaled at 636 global and trims are within 1 percent on e85. I was totally surprised coming from FIC 1000 ball and seat injector to disc type 1200's. the FIC 1050 had 740 global on e85
the disc type have WAY lower latency values and much lower global values to match. I believe they might not flow as much as the FIC or they simply flow more with lower latency values (FIC says disc type flow less according to their tests). (RC rates their 1200's at 1200 over 50 psi) and they flow less than 1100 at 43.5 psi according to their website.
I personally would not drive too much without the ability to log trims and AFR along with getting those injectors properly scaled.
PS For me the disc type injector meters fuel more accurately and idle and drivability has proven superior to ball/seat designed injector. It should also be noted that my particular injectors are designed for e85 or alcohol methanol based fuel
Good Luck
The scaling, I take a ratio of what the stock scaling is assuming a 550cc flow rate, and multiply it by the measured or generic value given for the injector I want to put in. It gets pretty close.
You have to play with the values somewhat, but it at least gets you in the ball park. I think I took most of the values for latency form FIC's carts... its been a while since I started this.
I never went in a found all the injectors, or added my final values in, I guess I could verify the values with what people are running... but eh never got a round to it, I might one day... I just thought I would throw it out there if anyone wants to use this, modify it, trash it.....
Injector Latancies.xls