Unsafe timing map?
Sep 10, 2006, 07:13 PM
#16
Yes, there is more than one way to tune a car, but timing at peak torque and timing at redline are two different animals, not to mention the ramp rate from peak torque to redine.
Also, the jump from 8* to 17* in adjacent cells alone is enough to cause the ECU to detect knock and pull timing. I think that is just a horrible map, but again, that's just my opinion.
Eric
Also, the jump from 8* to 17* in adjacent cells alone is enough to cause the ECU to detect knock and pull timing. I think that is just a horrible map, but again, that's just my opinion.
Eric
Sep 10, 2006, 07:16 PM
#17
Originally Posted by MalibuJack
Well, its hard to say, at the time it was much harder to log knock, however it definitely was getting knock simply because it was inconsistently producing power.
I always tend to run lower boost and more aggressive timing in general..
I always tend to run lower boost and more aggressive timing in general..
Sep 10, 2006, 07:19 PM
#19
I never said this was a good map, but the logs are more important to know for sure. It should be interesting to see what load cells it travels through, because traversing the cells may not traverse those particular cells (the adjacent cells with a big jump)
I just choose to never comment on maps unless their accompanied by logs.. You'd be surprised by some of the maps I've seen, and some of them worked fine, but visually were "odd looking" compared to others.
I just choose to never comment on maps unless their accompanied by logs.. You'd be surprised by some of the maps I've seen, and some of them worked fine, but visually were "odd looking" compared to others.
Sep 10, 2006, 07:26 PM
#20
Originally Posted by heyzeus11
Off topic, but have you noticed that your car makes more power with a little less boost but more timing rather then more boost with less timing? I just assumed that more boost less timing was > then more timing less boost; but I never knew for sure.
However, it really matters upon your setup. For example, on a stock Evo, that may not be the case. The 16g simply can't sustain that high of a boost level and the boost spikes that some people are getting to get these huge torque numbers are way out of the efficiency range of the compressor and just blowing hot air, where the IC comes into play, etc, etc.
But, in the case of a big turbo where you can boost 30-35+ psi, then going higher boost with less timing will make more power. Most of the data that I have seen and experienced was with turbos on the bigger side. Generally, it matters upon your setup and turbo, among others things. But, you can make great power both ways. Neither way is way better than the other....it just depends on too many variables.
Eric
Sep 10, 2006, 07:34 PM
#22
I happen to agree, on my new turbo setup I'm not running high timing numbers at all, just working on raising the boost a bit at a time and fine-tuning my targets..
On the 16g, (my stock 2003 turbo) I found keeping the boost around 21psi and working with timing and fueling made much better gains than running high boost that would just taper off to around 20psi anyway..
I think the only useful thing we can contribute will be after we can see some logs of it..
These are the types of timing maps that obviously are troublesome for us, we can't be sure how poorly (or great) the car is running without logs, but flattening the maps is a telltale sign that it may have been difficult to keep the car in the high octane map with this tune.
On the 16g, (my stock 2003 turbo) I found keeping the boost around 21psi and working with timing and fueling made much better gains than running high boost that would just taper off to around 20psi anyway..
I think the only useful thing we can contribute will be after we can see some logs of it..
These are the types of timing maps that obviously are troublesome for us, we can't be sure how poorly (or great) the car is running without logs, but flattening the maps is a telltale sign that it may have been difficult to keep the car in the high octane map with this tune.
Sep 11, 2006, 12:27 AM
#29
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is this guy running pump gas? i've seen agressive timing maps like this before, albeit #1) the fuel maps were much more accomodating (very rich) and 2) the person was tuned for race gas only...it would be interesting to see his evoscan logs, as the person I tried out had 0-1 knock only, so it could be done, albeit unlikely on pump gas..
Sep 11, 2006, 01:04 AM
#30
Originally Posted by heyzeus11
I ran into a local evo owner, and he asked me to take a look at this maps cause he said his car felt weak up top. His mods are tbe, exhaust manifold, upgraded intercooler, mbc set to 24lbs on 93 octane, and I dont remember if he has cam gears or not. One of the first maps I took a look at was his High/Low Octane timing map, the high and low timing maps were both equal to each other. His car was tuned by one of the local shops around here, and it appears he is running way to much timing? Is there any reason that an evo should or could be running that much timing? He did not let me log his car to see how much knock he was getting. It appears that the tuner does not have the foggiest about tuning an evo. Just want to know is it me or isnt this way to much timing?
Come on man you can tell us we wont tell no one Heyzeus. Anyways if it is not your map then at least do the guy a favor and put a stock map back in his car and tell him to take it to a professional please.